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23. dfan (4k) vs. Loons (5k)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=173

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Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:15 am
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 26
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X W . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

What, really? Does his cut work? Am I missing something? Black's last move looks like a big mistake. Maybe he is trying to set up some sort of squeeze but I just don't see it.

It was actually a tough choice between this and extending, which should be seriously sente because of this squeeze:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . 2 X O 1 . . . . . |
$$ . . O O X 4 5 . . . . |
$$ . , O X 3 6 7 X . . . |
$$ . . . X . 8 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

but after this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O 1 3 a . . . |
$$ . . O O X 2 4 . . . . |
$$ . , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I didn't like that I either have to keep extending (without sente anymore) or let Black completely block me at a.

This nice thing here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O . 3 . . . . |
$$ . . O O X 1 . . b . . |
$$ . , O X 2 . . X . . . |
$$ . . . X . . a . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

is that I am threatening to cut at a, not to mention take the entire corner with b.

I don't think he can pull any nonsense like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------+
$$ . . 6 . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ . . . X O 5 3 . . . . |
$$ . . O O X 1 . . . . . |
$$ . , O X 2 . . X . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

aiming for a ko or something. I can cut him off and he should die before anything bad happens.

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:56 am
by unkx80
In the position below, black's only correct move is to connect at :b1:. Allowing white to hane at a is too big because it helps white settle its upper side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X 1 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


In the diagram below, :b1: is simply a thank-you move. Black gets nothing at all.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X 3 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:19 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X B . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:26 pm
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 28
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . W . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

As planned.

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:56 pm
by Loons
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Argh... We're rapidly moving in a W+R direction... Somehow, despite the long terms for moves, I failed to play calmly or rationally... This KO won't even yield a good result for me...

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:07 pm
by fwiffo
Take a long hard look at your sig, then a long hard look at the board. There's no ko! :sad:

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:11 pm
by dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 30
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O W O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I still don't see that he has anything. He can only be trying to start a ko, but I have enough liberties, and he has to crawl so far before he can try to connect up, that I don't see any way it can work. I'll have egg on my face if I'm wrong...

Here's an example in which I can at least can get the tail (if Black a then White b). I bet I can do better if it comes to it, but it's nice to know that this is a worst case.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . 6 4 2 a X 7 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b . 3 5 X O 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . O O X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . , O X X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm
by Loons
Ack, I resign.

Somehow, the "thinking" part of my brain seems to not have been in charge for a few moves now.

Thankyou kindly for the game, Dfan! We must certainly play again some time.

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:10 pm
by Clossius
Why resign so early? Sure you lost a few points and your behind now, but is it really game over already?

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:17 pm
by dfan
Thanks for the game, Loons.

Playing slow games like this is really different from playing live. It's good for your go to really spend time reading things out. You might want to try playing some games on DGS or OGS.

That said, I think your biggest mistake was... resigning too early! Yes, it's a bad local result, but how many points can I really possibly be leading by? I'm only 3 or 4 kyu - trust me, I would have made some mistakes later :)

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:42 pm
by Loons
Hmm, I have realized that I might be coming across as a poor sport! (Bad local result?!? : Resign)

That was not my intention (though I guess it is sort of (exactly)what just happened) - I think that after this exchange you are ahead, and I want to focus on doing some Tsumego and my learning game with Magicwand for the next while.

Re: Malkovich #23 - dfan vs Loons

Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:06 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Yes, black definitely was not out of the game yet. Sure, at the end of the game, this sequence might be called "the losing moves", but only if you happen to lose ;-) . There's still plenty of time to play large-scale moves and try to claw your way back.

Though I do understand from personal experience on KGS: sometimes when you've played a bad sequence you're so upset with yourself that you feel like resigning on the spot and just forgetting your blunder.
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