Life In 19x19

willemien wrote: your knock-out and extra round can be the final part of it.

How? Please explain your idea in detail!

RobertJasiek wrote: How? Please explain your idea in detail!

Rough sketch of my proposel.
(Hope it gives enough details it is based on http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 403#p14403 )

- Topgroup

-- All Players above a certain rank (4dan or 5 dan, to be announced in advance, also includes non European players)
-- And agreeing to play every game (for europeans including the possible extra round)

-- All start with the same MM score (TWO MM points more than the players in the normal mm tournament (see http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 57&start=0 for my reasons to have two points difference)

In the first 7 rounds all europeans in the topgroup play 5 games (2 less than the number of rounds) against other europeans (The games against non europeans don't have to be in the same rounds, so TEplayer1 can play against Top europeans in round 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 while TEplayer2 plays against other Top europeans in round 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7)
(TEplayer is an European player in the topgroup)

These games can be seen as a "hidden" swiss tournament within the main tournament, but the pairing for this tournament gets preference above the pairing in the main tournament. Pairing can be normal swiss or accelerated Swiss (depending on what the tournament director decides)

The results of this games count double.
- They count for the Open European Tournament
and
- They count for the Best European Tournament

After 7 rounds, the best 8 TE playrs go to the final Knock out.

Deciding who plays in the Knock out
- Number of wins against other TEplayers
- Number of wins in Main Tournament
- result against TE players with more than 50% wins (Koya system)

If this still not decides on 8 players we can add an extra round as you suggested.

The Final knock out is organised per round (to minimize the number of repeated opponents)

Basically having a hidden Swiss in a McMahon top group is a possibility in principle (and sometimes done by cute TDs if the numbers of rounds and players fit). I dislike your proposal though because your first criterion is based on too few games, a sufficient number of non-Europeans is not guaranteed and it does not fit the AGM decision too closely.

RobertJasiek wrote: I dislike your proposal though because your first criterion is based on too few games,

It is only for the first sifting and for this it is enough.
The main difference to your prooposel is that in my system only games between Top europeans count (and that this is the same number for every player)

a sufficient number of non-Europeans is not guaranteed

The number of non europeans doesn't have to be that big, for the first 2 rounds don't pair them against eachother and after the second round you can also pair players who lost all games against players who won all their games but were not in the topgroup. (they have the same MM score at this point)
I think only around 1/7 of the topgroup have to be non-european. But the idea is that it is a fixed number so that there is also a fixed number Top european- Top european games.

I am not so in favour to reduce the number of games against non Top europeans then it becomes to much a split tournament. In this proposel the winner of the european title will only have played 2 games against non europeans.

and it does not fit the AGM decision too closely.

THat doesn't mean it is a bad proposel.
and it is close enough i think .

willemien wrote:

RobertJasiek wrote: I dislike your proposal though because your first criterion is based on too few games,

It is only for the first shifting and for this it is enough.

Please explain better why you consider it enough! What do you mean by "for the first shifting"?

I mean the first sifting
(reducing number of contestants to 8 -16)

Another option for this sifting:
(leads to the same result al long as there are less than 80 Top Europeans)
A player needs more than 3 wins against other Top europeans to be eligable to join the next sifting