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Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:58 pm
by Dusk Eagle
$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
In my last hidden comment, I gave the following sequence were he to play
:
$$Wcm38
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm38But looking at it again, I don't really like the feeling it gives with my lower-right corner. So, I've decided to jump up instead. One of the problems with this though is that it gives him this reduction technique:
$$Wcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1I don't really like this, but it's not terrible, and I don't see how I can do any better. I'm starting to think playing the move below would have been better instead of
:
$$Bcm37
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm37But now, I really don't want to play that way, because if he plays
, it makes the
-
exchange look really bad for me.
$$Bcm37
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm37So I'll be consistent and follow-up my last move.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:14 pm
by Laman
i will post another move in the morning.
emeraldemon:
EDIT: sorry, moving the time to afternoon
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:40 am
by Laman
$$Bcm1 Move #40, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #40, B+1
i think there should be something for me at the lower side, but could not find it. surely there are some reduction moves on the fifth line, but they are inferior to taking empty side. i could also play something like H3 and still get out with the group easily, but it is not likely i would profit from attacking F5 (i would need to play both a and b):
$$Bcm1 Diagram 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1and even if we just take big points, it looks still quite even:
$$Bcm1 Diagram 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 2 and
are both also sort of overextensions, but i believe black cannot invade easily, just as i cannot invade lower side
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:09 am
by Jedo
to Laman
Is there a reason why you didn't want to play closer to black's enclosure? Wouldn't this allow for a more severe double approach?
$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1Maybe a chance to use your thickness?
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:50 am
by Laman
Jedo:
Jedo wrote: to Laman
Is there a reason why you didn't want to play closer to black's enclosure? Wouldn't this allow for a more severe double approach?
$$Wcm1 Move #39, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #39, B+1Maybe a chance to use your thickness?
hmm, i cannot answer you very well. the simplest truth is that i didn't even consider points closer than in my diagrams. i would say you can't be very severe against keima shimari, unless you have a wall nearby. but that applies only to your formulation and not the moves...
i think if black pincers 1 with a, he can then extend to b and get pretty good almost-base. or maybe he could just play c, letting me secure one side and then attack my stone on the other side. if anyone else has something to say to this, i will be happy to read it
so far it is pretty quiet, peaceful game, should be good for studying strategy
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:05 pm
by Magicwand
for observer only:
this move is something i would never play unless it is a handycapped game.
bottom is too wide and easily invaded leaving shortage of points for black.
when i lose point balance i feel like i fell into a sandpit and can not escape. terrorable feelin.
$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1this is my preference but it is only my preference.
at least this picture maintain point balance.
i am only showing others how i think differently.
$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #39, B+1
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:07 pm
by Dusk Eagle
$$Bcm1 Move #41, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #41, B+1
I think this is definitely the biggest area now.
I didn't want to play one space closer, because I think that just makes an invasion too easy for him.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1Like this, I have to deal with the bad aji of the connection at 'a'.
However, I don't want to play any farther away either, as that is making my area smaller than it has to be.
I'm hoping that my frameworks on the bottom and the left work together well, in that if he invades one area, I can use an attack to enlarge the other area. It should be interesting, but for now I must get back to studying integrals and RSA encryption for my exams, which though interesting is not nearly as fun.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:26 pm
by Laman
$$Bcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #42, B+1
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:40 pm
by emeraldemon
not for players:
Is something like this possible?
$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 pm
by Magicwand
not for the players:
$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1above is possible but!!!
if you want to be strong try avoid that ugly peep.
it is often tempting but usually ajikeshi.
i would not exchange that peep and go straight to 3.
$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+12 is out of the question answer for black.
but if he answer with 2 then you can tenuki.
exchange itself is your gain so there is no need to go any further.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:53 pm
by Bill Spight
emeraldemon wrote: not for players:
Is something like this possible?
$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1I think that
is much to be preferred.
Do not approach strong stones. $$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm1 Move #42, B+1My first thought is
here, aiming at "a" or "b". But
prevents both. Now if
,
-
is vulgar, but this still doesn't look so good for White.
A reduction at "b" instead of invading may be best, but I think that any play here now is premature.
Edit: Unhidden.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:26 pm
by SpongeBob
Bill Spight wrote:
... Now if
,
-
is vulgar, but this still doesn't look so good for White.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:30 pm
by Bill Spight
SpongeBob wrote: Bill Spight wrote:
... Now if
,
-
is vulgar, but this still doesn't look so good for White.
I think of vulgar play as play anybody could find, play that requires no skill or imagination.
Edit: Let me make clear that I was not referring to the play of either of our protagonists, but of a possible variation.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:54 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Bill: I thought that was a very funny thing to say in the open while the game was still going on
.
$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1
This move plays on the border of our two frameworks, enlarging mine while opening up invasion opportunities into his region. However, if he protects against that invasion, I can form a loose connection between my two territories on the bottom and the left and build a mega-moyo.
I knew I wanted to play around this area, but I didn't see this particular point for a while. Instead, I was thinking about the related points labeled 'a', 'b', and 'c' below.
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1However, none of them seem to support an invasion into his area as a follow-up like this one does.
He can try directly cutting, but I don't think that doing so at this time is advantageous for him. If he does it, then I'll post some diagrams. However, notice that if he directly cuts, I could get some squeeze opportunities on his ponnuki.
I am actually very pleased and excited about this move. It remains to be seen if these feelings are justified
.
Re: 84. Laman (1d) vs. Dusk Eagle (1d)
Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:29 am
by Magicwand
not for the players:
$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Move #43, B+1if he wants to play there ...marked stone is correct.
what he played is full of bad aji and weak.
i am thinking "a" is a correct move though.
:
:
, it makes the 
and 
are both also sort of overextensions, but i believe black cannot invade easily, just as i cannot invade lower side
is much to be preferred. Do not approach strong stones. 
here, aiming at "a" or "b". But 
prevents both. Now if 
- 
is vulgar, but this still doesn't look so good for White. 
.
.