Life In 19x19

gaius wrote:I think that there are a few mistakes in the reasoning here. First of all, for the health of a go-playing community - whether this is a local group, a club, or a national association - the number of strong players is completely irrelevant.
Given that 337 people played in some tournament or the other last year, I do not believe that "Go in the UK is less healthy than elsewhere". All this negativity will only drive people away unnecessarily.

Well I don't agree with you.
If I may quote some more statistics, there were 67 Dutch entrants to the Wintergo whereas there were only 56 UK entrants to the London Open.
Given that the UK population is nearly 4 times that of the Netherlands, that doesn't seem very healthy to me, particularly as attendance has declined in recent years.

Moreover there were 17 NL players weaker than 10k at the Wintergo, but only 1 UK player at the London Open. That doesn't strike me as healthy either.

Strong players inspire weaker players. I watched Kim Ouweleen play informal games in last year's Zomergo. He played a fun game. If inspirational players stay away we are done for.

richardamullens wrote:

gaius wrote:I think that there are a few mistakes in the reasoning here. First of all, for the health of a go-playing community - whether this is a local group, a club, or a national association - the number of strong players is completely irrelevant.
Given that 337 people played in some tournament or the other last year, I do not believe that "Go in the UK is less healthy than elsewhere". All this negativity will only drive people away unnecessarily.

Well I don't agree with you.
If I may quote some more statistics, there were 67 Dutch entrants to the Wintergo whereas there were only 56 UK entrants to the London Open.
Given that the UK population is nearly 4 times that of the Netherlands, that doesn't seem very healthy to me, particularly as attendance has declined in recent years.

Moreover there were 17 NL players weaker than 10k at the Wintergo, but only 1 UK player at the London Open. That doesn't strike me as healthy either.

Strong players inspire weaker players. I watched Kim Ouweleen play informal games in last year's Zomergo. He played a fun game. If inspirational players stay away we are done for.

Strong players inspire weak players, to be sure. But I can sign on to KGS and be inspired by high dan players on a daily basis. (Or I could go through some sgf files and be inspired by 9-dan professionals.) I'm sure the situation is parallel in Britain. I suspect that in 2010, Western go players find it easier to be inspired by stronger players than ever before in the history of the world.

richardamullens wrote:Well I don't agree with you.
If I may quote some more statistics, there were 67 Dutch entrants to the Wintergo whereas there were only 56 UK entrants to the London Open.
Given that the UK population is nearly 4 times that of the Netherlands, that doesn't seem very healthy to me, particularly as attendance has declined in recent years.

Moreover there were 17 NL players weaker than 10k at the Wintergo, but only 1 UK player at the London Open. That doesn't strike me as healthy either.

Strong players inspire weaker players. I watched Kim Ouweleen play informal games in last year's Zomergo. He played a fun game. If inspirational players stay away we are done for.

Kim is only 3 dan, so if he is already inspirational enough, I'm sure that there are plenty of inspirational players in the UK as well! Anyway, the London Open is kind of a serious tournament, isn't it (I'm not British, so I'm not sure)? Anyway, Wintergo is a go camp where most people don't give a damn about the tournament but just want to spend the time between Christmas and New Year playing all kinds of games in the middle of beautiful nature. Many people bring their kids, therefore many of the double-digit kyu players are children. Now I do not live in the UK and I don't have children, but if I would, I doubt that I'd take them to a serious tournament during winter...

gaius wrote:Kim is only 3 dan, so if he is already inspirational enough, I'm sure that there are plenty of inspirational players in the UK as well! Anyway, the London Open is kind of a serious tournament, isn't it (I'm not British, so I'm not sure)? Anyway, Wintergo is a go camp where most people don't give a damn about the tournament but just want to spend the time between Christmas and New Year playing all kinds of games in the middle of beautiful nature. Many people bring their kids, therefore many of the double-digit kyu players are children. Now I do not live in the UK and I don't have children, but if I would, I doubt that I'd take them to a serious tournament during winter...

Check the European ratings for NL & UK

There are 3 active players for the UK above 2250 who claim London as their club.
For Amsterdam there there are 6 and it is considerably smaller than London.

The Dutch Go scene is healthier because there are children playing. It does not matter that the Wintergo is not serious. (Actually, I believe that the Wintergo is serious - if it is like the Zomergo with games and talks).

Zomergo and WinterGo are awesome. They are 4-5 day residential tournaments that are cheap, with lessons, the Beer/Wine/Pop costs 50 cents or less and coffee/tea are free. The price covers all food and accommodation. I also liked my prize in 2009 - a bottle of Skuumkoppe - http://www.rhodamine.eu/~richard/diary/pictures/img_1881.jpeg

the biggest clubs are utrecht, leiden and den haag i think. the dutch go association has a special team tournament called the national go competetion. this is what helps players bond in go clubs and visit other clubs. Maybe the BGA should try to accomplish something like this too

richardamullens wrote:Zomergo and WinterGo are awesome. They are 4-5 day residential tournaments that are cheap, with lessons, the Beer/Wine/Pop costs 50 cents or less and coffee/tea are free. The price covers all food and accommodation. I also liked my prize in 2009 - a bottle of Skuumkoppe - http://www.rhodamine.eu/~richard/diary/pictures/img_1881.jpeg

Yes, they are awesome! These "go camps" are growing every year, only because everybody loves them.

So if you really wants to give a new stimulus to the UK go community: go ahead and organize your own summer/winter go camp! Yes, I know it's a lot of work, but if someone takes the time and does it, I'm sure everyone will love them for it...