Life In 19x19

It is hard to say. I'm 3kyu Tygem, 4kyu IGS, 5kyu KGS, though if I played on KGS my rank there might be much better.

The ranks in Tygem feel less artificial than IGS.

I am now a 5D-Tygem and 1D-KGS. I think it's safe to say that around dan level Tygem ranks are KGS-rank+3. I also think that KGS's pathetic ranking system keeps players underachiving.

Pippen wrote:I am now a 5D-Tygem and 1D-KGS. I think it's safe to say that around dan level Tygem ranks are KGS-rank+3. I also think that KGS's pathetic ranking system keeps players underachiving.

So, you feel you play weaker on KGS that on Tygem?

Bantari wrote:

Pippen wrote:I am now a 5D-Tygem and 1D-KGS. I think it's safe to say that around dan level Tygem ranks are KGS-rank+3. I also think that KGS's pathetic ranking system keeps players underachiving.

So, you feel you play weaker on KGS that on Tygem?

No, not really. I have no idea, maybe it's KGS' ranking system? I know people that are 1d at KGS and 4d on Tygem, so it's not really a shocker. It's weird though, because it can be pretty misleading. Imagine I tell some guy I am 5D and he's impressed, because he's a 1d-KGS and wants some lessons/advice and then finds out we're actually even. As I heard WBaduk is even weirder, some 6d there can be 1d at KGS....

Pippen wrote:No, not really. I have no idea, maybe it's KGS' ranking system? I know people that are 1d at KGS and 4d on Tygem, so it's not really a shocker. It's weird though, because it can be pretty misleading. Imagine I tell some guy I am 5D and he's impressed, because he's a 1d-KGS and wants some lessons/advice and then finds out we're actually even. As I heard WBaduk is even weirder, some 6d there can be 1d at KGS....

Playing on both you realize that KGS is trying to keep ranks at handicap stones apart and uses many handicap games in calculations while Tygem is all even games (or at least a huge majority)? It's very unlikely it would come to same distribution.

Pippen wrote:

Bantari wrote:

Pippen wrote:I am now a 5D-Tygem and 1D-KGS. I think it's safe to say that around dan level Tygem ranks are KGS-rank+3. I also think that KGS's pathetic ranking system keeps players underachiving.

So, you feel you play weaker on KGS that on Tygem?

No, not really. I have no idea, maybe it's KGS' ranking system? I know people that are 1d at KGS and 4d on Tygem, so it's not really a shocker. It's weird though, because it can be pretty misleading. Imagine I tell some guy I am 5D and he's impressed, because he's a 1d-KGS and wants some lessons/advice and then finds out we're actually even. As I heard WBaduk is even weirder, some 6d there can be 1d at KGS....

Yeah, I can understand that, but... This is why you also need to provide reference for your rank. There is no such thing as "1d", really, you have to qualify that further. If you are going around telling people you are "5d" and nothing else, it is not the rating system that confuses people but you who misrepresent yourself.

Anyways... no biggie. The guy who asks you for a lesson will find out soon enough, I guess.

PS>
Reminds me when back in the day, IGS ranking system was much tougher that any other, by 3 or 4 or more stones, I think. Like an AGA 5d would be 1-2d on IGS, something like that. This was sort-of by design, the highest rank you could register was 4d, so all those strong players were 4d, and to get to 6d you needed to be a pro or something. If memory serves correctly. IGS people at that time seemed to take it as a tremendous advantage of "their" system, and were sometimes even looking down upon all the "easy" ranks bestowed all over the place and "play ranks". In particular, KGS rank was sometimes ridiculed.

Now KGS rank is stronger than for example Tygem (and even stronger than or comparable to IGS in dan ranges) - but instead of taking it as something to be proud of, having such tough ranking system and not giving out 5d and 6d ranks to weak players willy-nilly left and right like Tygem does - people complain.

It seems this is how the world turns these days.
People complain, no matter what, nothing is ever good. If not ranks, then escapers, if not escapers, then admins, if not admins, then a beep sound... complain complain complain. Must be a new fashion or something. I feel I am getting old.

oren wrote:

Pippen wrote:No, not really. I have no idea, maybe it's KGS' ranking system? I know people that are 1d at KGS and 4d on Tygem, so it's not really a shocker. It's weird though, because it can be pretty misleading. Imagine I tell some guy I am 5D and he's impressed, because he's a 1d-KGS and wants some lessons/advice and then finds out we're actually even. As I heard WBaduk is even weirder, some 6d there can be 1d at KGS....

Playing on both you realize that KGS is trying to keep ranks at handicap stones apart and uses many handicap games in calculations while Tygem is all even games (or at least a huge majority)? It's very unlikely it would come to same distribution.

The rankings on IGS and KGS feel artificial to me, I think it is the emergent boundary effect caused by the handicap stone ratings. As for style of play, I think their is a difference in style of play. For KGS I think it is sort of a population bottle neck problem, where most players learned from Sensei's library, and that one PDF on shape, for IGS I think it is the Japanese style, again hoshi stones and handicaps are emphasized. Interesting things happen when you only play even games.

Bantari wrote:There is no such thing as "1d", really, you have to qualify that further.

I agree. One would need a strength list or ranking graph. Then it would follow this in my case (numbers are arbitrary, but I hope you get the point): On KGS I'd be 1d and number 1000 of 3000 accounts. On Tygem I'd be 5d and number 3000 of 9000 accounts. So everyone could easily see my "real" strength and wouldn't be fooled by the specific ranking of a server.