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114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3704

Page 4 of 5

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:28 pm
by Aphelion
Neonemesis:
Your positional analysis didn't include the tengen. How are you taking that into account?

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 11:05 pm
by NeoNemesis
Aphelion:
It serves as a way to help me reinforce for fights. It's not far from any fights on the board and it can serve as a universal ladder breaker. It's slightly allin though since it puts me slightly behind on territory especially since I am white. Think of it as a proxy 2 gate in the map. It will always be useful and you can constantly reinforce. No matter where they are, you can guarantee the middle will be closer than your starting location to their base and it will certainly always help reinforce in fights. The problem though is I'll have to gain something from the fights or else i will be behind. Looking at the position again, The bottom is probably bigger than what I had estimated, but I am counting on the aji of my stone to make some profit later.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:27 am
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So... many... joseki...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, this feels awful...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O . 2 3 . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's times like this when I wish I were good at positional judgment.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 4 O 8 2 . . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Feels pretty terrible...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 0 2 3 . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O X . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 4 . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think I can use this joseki... the fighting is too good for him...

I guess the only thing I can do here is to take the corner in a normal fashion.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:07 pm
by NeoNemesis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I don't like the variation if he just takes the corner from here
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . 4 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 O . W 1 . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He's making it hard for me to utilize tengen.

So I play the variation that allows me to fight. However Ideally I'd have a stone at D10 to play here.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:02 pm
by Violence
Gotta think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can only really think of two options...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 6 . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . 1 . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 4 . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This... doesn't feel very good... similar variations, I think, leave me in trouble. That tengen stone is really a pain.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sacrifice and make sabaki? Still... not feeling right...

I feel like I'm missing something very fundamental about this position, neither of my ideas seem very good, I think my thinking here is too narrow.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Nothing feels particularly good here...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe this is harder to attack... hmm...

I don't really know what to do here, it's tough.

One thing's for sure, though. When your first feeling is refuted by your sense of judgment after a few moves, you don't play your first feeling, you have to look for something else.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:12 pm
by NeoNemesis
Just think. What would NPH do?
I bet he's going to move E15 as I don't think the fight is good for me if he does. It's like responding to a gas steal by 4 gating, or marines with banelings.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:27 pm
by mw42
Why does this position look familiar, and why do I remember this move being played...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:13 pm
by Puppycakes
mw42 wrote:
Why does this position look familiar, and why do I remember this move being played...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that's from a famous Go Seigen game. But I only vaguely remember. There were opponent stones on the star points when that move was played.

I wonder if Violence considered the 5-5. That's what I'd want to play.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:57 pm
by cdybeijing
mw42 wrote:Why does this position look familiar, and why do I remember this move being played...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think you saw this idea in an article on the go game guru website.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:07 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Here's the article, but as you can see, the situation is a bit different (no white D10 stone; the pincer is one space closer.) Still a fun move to at least consider.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 7:29 pm
by yithril
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 3 1 O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probably the lean/attach method would be good for Black. That two space jump thing I've never seen before but it looks cool :)

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:21 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about it some more, and I guess I just want to lean on the pincer stone. I feel like if I attach to it, though, he'll get a stronger attack on my lone stone, so I'm gonna give this a shot.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:07 pm
by Magicwand
not for the players
i predict that black will win by resign.
i dont know how strong neo is but what he has shown me sofar is not impressive at all.

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:57 am
by NeoNemesis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I tenuki.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[mod edit from Chew]Hope you don't mind, I marked your most recent move[/mod edit]

Re: 114: Violence vs NeoNemesis

Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:34 pm
by Violence
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's him push further and then come back to attack severely, feels uncomfortable. I want to avoid this variation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X W 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X |
$$ | . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X . X X . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . O . X . . X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is my plan. it's hard for him to attack my bigger group, and I can sacrifice a stone if he cuts. If I were to not make the 3 and 4 exchange, I think his cut is big... so I should probably make the exchange, even though it doesn't feel so good.

Well, let's see if this works.
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