This was also tough, I was not exactly expecting these last two moves. I think protects the corner and prevents Black from splitting off White's C14 stone. If Black crosscuts, White should be able to either keep the corner or attack Black's outside stones (C14 will help with this). White's three stones in the top-middle have almost been cut off, Black may go after those stones next. White may sacrifice one or two of them to link up with either the corner or the group on the right.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
The idea here is to just continue to lean on white's corner. If this goes well, black may get strong enough to attack the group of three right stones at the top.
I also considered the cross-cut, but then I think white could force black to live small in the corner and get strong enough to really kick butt on the outside.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
For this move, Black is threatening to cut White at A or B. I think defending the cut at E16 would be too slow, and if White plays E18 Black can defend at G17 or G18. Now Black can start attacking White's three stones, and perhaps take some more territory on the bottom side. If things start to go bad, Black can still jump out around J13.
Edit: Fixed hidden diagram, I put "0" instead of "O" and accidently added some uppercase letters.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O W O 3 B . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X a 4 X 1 2 . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 X 5 O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . b . . B . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |[/go]
If black tries to cut like this, it's all kinds of trouble. If he cuts at a, white can capture at b, and if he escapes with those four stones, white can connect at a and the rest of the group is probably gonna die. Not to mention the thinness of that two space jump... This is just one way for this to go badly for black.
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O W O 3 B . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X 1 2 . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . B . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O W O 3 B . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X 1 2 . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . B . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |[/go]
This might be better for white.
Of course, if black doesn't push and cut, then becomes somewhat meaningless. So I imagine Harleqin is going to try to find some other way to make use of that stone.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Well, that last exchange was likely aji keshi; for example, attaching at H17 has lost its force, and there is no chance to peep from the second line instead later. Black cannot push through as long as White can cut in sente at H15.
Now, things have developed in such a way that the move I initially rejected as bad shape can actually be good, since it threatens to either push through on the right or isolate the lone white central stone. The alternative, attaching to the left of that central stone, seems to strengthen it too much.
I was not expecting , but I can see why it is a good move. This is very tough for White... I feel that threatens to link up at E18 (and makes some eye space). If Black blocks there next, White can connect at L16 and try attacking Black's corner group (perhaps there is a weakness around a) or running out. Black's group is still floating too, but I think this may be an easier fight for Black, especially as Black has stones at E10, and White's G10 stone looks a little lonely.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:23 am
by Harleqin
Fwiffo?
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 6:24 am
by fwiffo
Sorry, I've been busy. I will play a move today.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Now that black is connected, this cut works. I'm surprised white passively slid underneath like that. I think it would be better to connect out and avoid getting sealed in, rather than trying to live locally. Accordingly, I think cutting, thereby sealing white in, is very big. does take away some of black's potential eye-shape, but there is so much running space that there isn't an effective attack.
I was actually quite tempted to tenuki. R3 is pretty huge, and H3 is big.
White is in a difficult position now. This reduction ended up being pretty effective, and white seems to be behind. If black gets R3, I'm not sure where white's going to get enough territory from. At the same time, a reduction of black's lower left is also urgent.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
That would have kept Black completely separated, the white group would have had miai of the slide and the centre, and the black niken tobi would have got thin. Now, White almost has to connect at E18.
However, White cannot really do anything with this, and and rather help Black's own moyo while White is running on neutral points. Therefore, I think that it is best to leave the aji open for now and contest the black moyo in the lower left---if Black gets there first, the game is really over.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
I was not expecting , but I see now that the "fight" on the top can be resumed later, White playing around there may just end up helping Black.
In the lower-left corner, I do not know this joseki (if it is a joseki at all, that is). The side looks bigger than the corner, so I will defend there. I am not sure if White can live in the corner, and White can't crosscut right now (else Black will play B3). Even if White manages to live, Black should be happy to take the side, and perhaps attack White's center stones around G14 next.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Harleqin played a standard probe; I presume he's trying to borrow some strength from black's shimari to begin a reduction of the box formation. After black blocks on the outside like this, the only local response is to cross-cut. The idea is to sacrifice the probe stone to get a light group established inside black's moyo.
It's probably also possible to tenuki at this point, treating as a forcing move and coming back to use its aji later, but reducing this area is most urgent right now, so I might as well continue locally.
$$B $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . X , X . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . b . 6 . $$ | . 4 . a . . $$ | . X W . c . $$ | 5 O X 2 . . $$ | . 1 3 . X . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ ------------
[go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . X , X . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . b . 6 . $$ | . 4 . a . . $$ | . X W . c . $$ | 5 O X 2 . . $$ | . 1 3 . X . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ ------------[/go]
This is one possible sequence that kyu players commonly learn, but I don't think it's the most common among pros. It is played at the pro level though.
The exact placement of varies, but the idea is to stay light. Playing a would leave peeps at b and c and make the whole group heavy. With something like , white can easily sacrifice the original stones to make a stronger shape.
I think a and b are actually more common, but I am less familiar with them, and I think they get pretty complicated. Some of the variations after b depend on a ladder which, remarkably, because of the the white stone at L15, seems to favor white at the moment. I'm going to reread it several more times because it's a tricky ladder, complicated by the many black stones near L15 and the black stone at E10.
Re: Zen Malkovich #1: Nikolas73 (6k) Fwiffo (4k) Harleqin (2
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:38 am
by Harleqin
$$Bcm41 B:1, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O O O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 5 . . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O O O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X b . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
with continuations 'a' or 'b' possible. However, this makes the game complicated, and I feel that Black is comfortably ahead. So, I expect something like this to transpire:
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O O O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . 7 . O . . . . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 O X 2 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 1 3 . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 B:1, W:0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O X . . . O O O . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . X . . X X . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X X . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . . . . X . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . X , X . . . . , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X 6 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . . X . . . . O . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I missed this when I played my last move as Black, but it looks like White can play lightly and escape, perhaps reducing/destroying Black's territory on the left side. Next I expect Black to defend at C3 or capture at A4, and then White can try something like F5 to get out. Maybe first White could peep at D9 as a kind of forcing move, but White should probably build up a little strength before going after those Black stones (C10 and F10).