[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X O O O . 5 . . . | $$ | . . X . . . O 4 3 1 . | $$ | . . O O . . . . O 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
The latter, sadly
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:34 pm
by illluck
$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . X . . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . X . . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Yeah, that one's weird because the killing move is strictly worse in normal Go.
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:40 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X 9 . . X . . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X 9 . . X . . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:45 pm
by topazg
$$Wcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 4 . X X X 0 . X 8 . | $$ | 1 X X O O O 9 X . . 6 | $$ | 3 O X . . . O O X X 5 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O 7 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Wcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 4 . X X X 0 . X 8 . | $$ | 1 X X O O O 9 X . . 6 | $$ | 3 O X . . . O O X X 5 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O 7 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
$$Wcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X X . X X . | $$ | O X X O O O O X . . X | $$ | O O X 1 . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . 3 O O O | $$ | . . . . . . 4 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Wcm50 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X X . X X . | $$ | O X X O O O O X . . X | $$ | O O X 1 . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . 3 O O O | $$ | . . . . . . 4 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
So, I'm winning on the board, and White has two groups - is because taking shape points seems important in this game. Is this enough?
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:59 pm
by illluck
$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X 0 . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X 0 . | $$ | . 7 X O O O . X . . . | $$ | . 6 X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . 8 O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
I count myself behind by a few points. What's worse is that it will be easier for black to make multiple single eyes. So I guess I'll try to see if there's any funny business due to red stones.
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:14 pm
by wessanenoctupus
hey guys, whats a pie rule? Also, I am going to comment on something Mark said in BGG here, Go is not innately a game of aggression. It can be a game of aggression, but in my humble opinion, playing go should be like properly doing Tai Ji, moving in such a way that if a butterfly lands on your arm, it should collapse (of course you could adjust your strength to the butterfly)...sorry If my metaphor sounds silly. And I will readily admit to not actually playing the way I just described.
I also agree with other players (though I don't remember which posts they were or if they are even on L19) that move pie rule feels rather awkward for Go. A komi auction/pie rule on komi feels cleaner, but it'll probably settle around 6.5 anyways so I don't think it'll be that useful.
I do really like the pieboxing variant though (both players alternatively choose black moves until one side decides to take white and try to live).
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:46 am
by topazg
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X O . | $$ | . X X O O O . X . 1 . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X O . | $$ | . X X O O O . X . 1 . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Looks like he's worked it out, and is trying to pull it back. The problem is, red stones are a right pain in the posterior compared to normal go situations. Things where you'd normally have a squeeze going on no longer work:
$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X 0 4 | $$ | . X X O O O . X . 1 3 | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X 2 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X 0 4 | $$ | . X X O O O . X . 1 3 | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X 2 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 6 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X O O | $$ | . X X O O O . X . X X | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O C | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X . . X O O | $$ | . X X O O O . X . X X | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O C | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
White can't recapture, because there's nothing to capture, which means I get free eye space eaty moves.
Will be interesting to see how the board develops, I actually strongly suspect he's squeezing the other side, but I'm struggling to read danger:
$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . 0 6 7 . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 4 X 0 9 | $$ | . X X O O O 3 X 5 1 . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X 8 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . 0 6 7 . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 4 X 0 9 | $$ | . X X O O O 3 X 5 1 . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X 8 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . O C X . | $$ | . . . X X X O O X . C | $$ | . X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | . O X 1 2 4 O O X X O | $$ | . O O O 3 . . 5 O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . O C X . | $$ | . . . X X X O O X . C | $$ | . X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | . O X 1 2 4 O O X X O | $$ | . O O O 3 . . 5 O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:10 am
by illluck
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 . X O . | $$ | . X X O O O . X . X . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 . X O . | $$ | . X X O O O . X . X . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Are we hiding comments now? I think black's last move should be the descent, but not absolutely sure.
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:42 am
by topazg
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 4 X O . | $$ | . X X O O O 3 X 5 X . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X X 2 4 X O . | $$ | . X X O O O 3 X 5 X . | $$ | . O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Assuming you want to squeeze
This could be a very interesting shape ...
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:37 pm
by illluck
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 . . X X X 2 . X O . | $$ | 4 X X O O O 3 X . X . | $$ | 6 O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 . . X X X 2 . X O . | $$ | 4 X X O O O 3 X . X . | $$ | 6 O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
I'll play on the left first.
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:04 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 7 . X X X 2 8 X O . | $$ | 4 X X O O O 3 X 9 X . | $$ | 6 O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 5 7 . X X X 2 8 X O . | $$ | 4 X X O O O 3 X 9 X . | $$ | 6 O X . . . O O X X . | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Ok, is this your continuation?
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:29 pm
by illluck
$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O . | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X . . . O O X X 0 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O . | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X . . . O O X X 0 | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:57 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O 1 | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X . . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O 1 | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X . . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Re: Red, a Go variant
Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:24 pm
by illluck
$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O X | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------
[go]$$Bcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0 $$ ------------------------- $$ | . . . . . X X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . X O O O O O | $$ | . . X . . X X X O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O O X O X | $$ | O X X O O O X X X X . | $$ | O O X 2 . . O O X X O | $$ | . O O O . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -------------------------[/go]
Now for the joys of no pass go. How does that even work anyways? XD
is because taking shape points seems important in this game. Is this enough?