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Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=575

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Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:04 am
by daniel_the_smith
Harleqin wrote:
I think that it is interesting that so many people judge the 4th game just by the self atari. The rest of the game is just obviously (to me) way above my level.


I didn't even look at the whole game before deciding it was high dan or pro. If I'd seen the self atari, I wonder if it would have changed my mind?

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 7:31 am
by fwiffo
Game 1 seems seems passive and simple, which makes me think weaker kyu, but there aren't the kind of gross tactical blunders you'd see at that level. I'm gonna say 7 kyu.

Game 2 seems dan level at first blush, at least in terms of style. But it's not the sort of incomprehensible play you see from high dans. So I'll say 3 dan.

Game 3 seems heavy on knowledge. I think this could be a pro game, but I think high dan amateur is more lucky. 7 dan?

Game 4 seems strongish at first, but is marked by a truly catastrophic blunder. That might lead me to believe that it's weaker players, but I've seen blunders of that caliber in dan level games on KGS more than once, even non-blitz ones. And there are moves I know weaker players don't play. E2, for instance, is the kind of move I'm just now starting to try at my level. I'll say 1 kyu.

So, my final answer is:
1. 7 kyu
2. 3 dan
3. 7 dan
4. 1 kyu

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 8:34 am
by Violence
Argh, I'm up here in Vancouver for a week, without dedicated internet... I don't have the time to do my usual analysis on 4 games. This thing came at the worst possible time for me. I'll probably respond when I get back home, if it's still up.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 9:57 am
by freegame
I'll give it a try.

6 kyu
7 dan
3 dan
9 dan

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 1:29 pm
by Dusk Eagle
ketchup wrote:Question for Sol.ch:
Besides the initial laugh/shock of pro self atari, is there a real reason to put this game in the list? I don't quite understand. The play is very very odd. Has there been an in-depth analysis on it? If there has been, can you link it? Seriously feels like both players are playing drunk/ on drugs or throwing the game.

I don't know why you think q8 is bad timing. As for D11, it is a probe to ensure that black will play D10. Now white can prepare for a follow-up move around B12 (which he played the very next opportunity he got). D11 followed-up by B12 is a very common shape.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Fri May 21, 2010 2:41 pm
by ketchup
Dusk Eagle

ketchup wrote:Question for Sol.ch:
Besides the initial laugh/shock of pro self atari, is there a real reason to put this game in the list? I don't quite understand. The play is very very odd. Has there been an in-depth analysis on it? If there has been, can you link it? Seriously feels like both players are playing drunk/ on drugs or throwing the game.

I don't know why you think q8 is bad timing. As for D11, it is a probe to ensure that black will play D10. Now white can prepare for a follow-up move around B12 (which he played the very next opportunity he got). D11 followed-up by B12 is a very common shape.


My biggest question is why? Why is the probe at move 16(d11)? Are either player really worried about the group? It's honestly settled pretty cleanly(at least from what I understand). Why this early? Why this move when it seems to hurt the c8 extension? Why not something a lot bigger than this? There's no doubt there's aji, but does white really need to aim for it this early?

One more question:

How did black end up getting both the h17 area and the e2 area?

I'm sure I don't study this game enough, so maybe someone better than me can answer these questions.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 12:32 pm
by Violence
Just noting, I'm still fully intent on doing this... I just need a moment where I have enough time and internets to do it.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:55 pm
by odnihs
9k
6d
3d
pro

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 12:02 pm
by runaway
Okay, I'll take a stab at it without looking at other answers.
1. 9 kyu Not ddk, but hardly any understanding of basic opening.
2. 6 kyu Pretty bad shape.
3. 2 dan It looked a little bad, but I feel that they are strong.
4. 6 dans under a 10s b/y blitz probably. It was extremely exciting until that point... XP
Thank you Araban. It was really fun watching these.
now it's time to see how really far off I am XD

Edit: ahehehe... I looked over the second game again... XP I was looking at it thinking, there are so many cutting points, but it was much more tenacious, so maybe it should've been much higher.
I'm guessing we judge things based of our strengths. Mine is looking out for cuts and trying to read them out. I felt that a ko at the beginning was unnecessary so I totally misjudged it. XP I messed up didn't I?
Edit #2: after seeing #1 again, I believe that all are KGS dan levels now, except #4.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 10:59 pm
by Jonas
Yo!
Sol, when do you provide the answer, I'm going crazy while checking the thread every day ^_^

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 11:55 pm
by Solomon
Jonas wrote:Yo!
Sol, when do you provide the answer, I'm going crazy while checking the thread every day ^_^

Waiting for Violence pretty much :p.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:02 am
by tj86430
Araban wrote:
Jonas wrote:Yo!
Sol, when do you provide the answer, I'm going crazy while checking the thread every day ^_^

Waiting for Violence pretty much :p.

While I think it is polite to wait for somebody who has told that he will participate when he can, I think in the future it might be a good idea to announce a set deadline for answers.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:27 am
by Solomon
tj86430 wrote:
Araban wrote:
Jonas wrote:Yo!
Sol, when do you provide the answer, I'm going crazy while checking the thread every day ^_^

Waiting for Violence pretty much :p.

While I think it is polite to wait for somebody who has told that he will participate when he can, I think in the future it might be a good idea to announce a set deadline for answers.

I'll set the deadline to tomorrow by 10 then, sorry sorry.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 12:37 am
by tj86430
Araban wrote:
tj86430 wrote:
Araban wrote:Waiting for Violence pretty much :p.

While I think it is polite to wait for somebody who has told that he will participate when he can, I think in the future it might be a good idea to announce a set deadline for answers.

I'll set the deadline to tomorrow by 10 then, sorry sorry.

What I actually meant was setting the deadline when the problem/competition is published. Now that everybody already knows that we are waiting for Violence it's fine, he will answer as soon as possible (although we don't know when that will be) and everybody will be happy.

Re: Strength Analysis Experiment v2 - w/ prize!

Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 1:30 am
by topazg
Must admit, I'm not too fussed either way - I'm just glad that Araban is hosting a fun competition :)
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