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Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:29 pm
by oren
palapiku wrote:Edit: Maybe you skipped over the word "e-Ink" in my post?
I did not, but I used the adjective in a different way than you intended probably.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:31 pm
by Uberdude
palapiku wrote:First it's John Fairbairn releasing books only in a proprietary locked-in format that works only on a specific e-Ink device among dozens on the market;
then it's Charles Matthews releasing a book only as part of a huge database of game records;
Nitpicking, but you got your order wrong there. Charles doesn't do much Go stuff nowadays (though he did make a rare appearance at the club this week).
palapiku wrote:I have bought printed books by both Fairbairn and Matthews. I'm not some kind of evil pirate. I just don't need GoGoD and I can't buy Shape Up from Gobase because Gobase is dead and I can't get it from a Korean website because I don't read Korean. I see only one solution for this...
Edit: I actually see two solutions. I could pirate Shape Up, or I could just live without it. Note that as far as Charles Matthews is concerned, the outcome is exactly the same - he doesn't get anything.
Well, if you want Shape Up there is a 3rd choice: buy GoGoD and throw all those useless SGFs in the bin. Maybe you think £20 is too much for a book in pdf form, but that's your value judgement. The fact you don't want the rest of GoGoD doesn't prevent you from buying it for Shape Up. And this option I doubt Charles gets anything either, other than knowing his work is supporting what he presumably views as a worthy cause.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:22 pm
by Insane
palapiku wrote: I can't get it from a Korean website because I don't read Korean.
When I follow the link Matthews mentioned as approved there are plain links to the pdf chapters in English.
No knowledge of Korean seems to be needed...
Am I missing something?
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:56 pm
by jts
palapiku wrote:I can't get it from a Korean website because I don't read Korean.
I'm as big a fan of free-form whining as the next fellow, so I'm very much in sympathy with your post - but did you follow the link to the Korean site that Charles Matthews posted?
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:08 pm
by palapiku
I did not. Ha! That makes it easier
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:52 am
by Charles Matthews
Toge wrote:Charles Matthews wrote:Anyone who is a serious go player should buy the GoGod CD-ROM which has "Shape Up!" and other writings of mine included.
- CD-ROM technology is horribly outdated. If you have the kind of attitude that downloads over the Internet are not acceptable means to distribute content at this day and age I can tell you it's not piracy that's making biggest cut to your sales. It's the world moving on. You might want to check out the smartphone app market. I can imagine some go players wanting to read your book on their tablet computer.
You raise an interesting question. But its interest is mainly for go publishers. I'm not one of those, and my dealings with go publishers, and would-be go publishers, in the past, were unsatisfactory, to put it mildly. I don't "have" any sales of this work. I think I sold about five copies of "Shape Up!", total.
The main issue seemed to be this, in the past. Go publishers in English didn't have a large, thriving market, when it was just books: a print run of say 3000 would take 10 years to clear the warehouse. The books that would really raise the standard of Western go weren't what the publishers were concerned with; easier to reproduce material produced for go fans in East Asia. (Exception: James Davies for Ishi Press.)
Now the chance of electronic distribution ought to have changed matters. Western go authors weren't exactly encouraged in that past time, though (I except JF, who would be hard to discourage, and he has some stories to tell ...) There have been some other problems built into go material since the mid-60s (false analogies with chess, for one).
I think go material has still not yet been fully "localised" for the Western market. I hope it will be.
Anyway, I got discouraged a while ago as a go writer. The GoGod disc is a fantastic tool; and if you are going to be technically snobbish, you are hampering your development as a player, however much street cred your premium hardware gets you.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:53 am
by palapiku
Charles Matthews wrote:Anyway, I got discouraged a while ago as a go writer. The GoGod disc is a fantastic tool; and if you are going to be technically snobbish, you are hampering your development as a player, however much street cred your premium hardware gets you.
Hi Charles, first of all, I learned Go from your book, Teach Yourself Go, which I bought at a brick-and-mortar store (the biggest bookstore chain in Canada). It was a great book and I'm much obliged. I would definitely buy your other books if I came across them.
Second, just some reality check here: Many modern computers
don't have a CD-ROM drive, to say nothing of smartphones and tablets. It's hardly technical snobbery if a normal computer you bought at a normal store is not equipped to read CDs, or for that matter floppies.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:54 am
by deja
Charles Matthews wrote:Toge wrote:Charles Matthews wrote:Anyone who is a serious go player should buy the GoGod CD-ROM which has "Shape Up!" and other writings of mine included.
- CD-ROM technology is horribly outdated. If you have the kind of attitude that downloads over the Internet are not acceptable means to distribute content at this day and age I can tell you it's not piracy that's making biggest cut to your sales. It's the world moving on. You might want to check out the smartphone app market. I can imagine some go players wanting to read your book on their tablet computer.
You raise an interesting question. But its interest is mainly for go publishers. I'm not one of those, and my dealings with go publishers, and would-be go publishers, in the past, were unsatisfactory, to put it mildly. I don't "have" any sales of this work. I think I sold about five copies of "Shape Up!", total.
The main issue seemed to be this, in the past. Go publishers in English didn't have a large, thriving market, when it was just books: a print run of say 3000 would take 10 years to clear the warehouse. The books that would really raise the standard of Western go weren't what the publishers were concerned with; easier to reproduce material produced for go fans in East Asia. (Exception: James Davies for Ishi Press.)
Now the chance of electronic distribution ought to have changed matters. Western go authors weren't exactly encouraged in that past time, though (I except JF, who would be hard to discourage, and he has some stories to tell ...) There have been some other problems built into go material since the mid-60s (false analogies with chess, for one).
I think go material has still not yet been fully "localised" for the Western market. I hope it will be.
Anyway, I got discouraged a while ago as a go writer. The GoGod disc is a fantastic tool; and if you are going to be technically snobbish, you are hampering your development as a player, however much street cred your premium hardware gets you.
Hi Charles, just wanted to thank you for your work. It has certainly improved my game. Your experience, unfortunately, is a good example of why supporting folks like you is so important. The worst part, at least from my perspective, is that we'll never know what your next Go book might have been.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:33 am
by billywoods
Charles Matthews wrote:if you are going to be technically snobbish, you are hampering your development as a player
This comment annoys me, for two reasons.
Firstly, are you aware that CD-ROM drives are being slowly phased out by some large computer manufacturers? I don't think I remember the last time I held a CD or a DVD in my hand, because they're useless lumps of plastic that have since been superseded, but more importantly than my opinion is that this opinion is very widespread. This means that it's (slowly) becoming harder and harder to buy machines that will read CDs. It is technological snobbery to publish valuable resources in only a single medium which some people cannot access. It is not technological snobbery to ask for it to be made more widely available.
Secondly, I spend an hour or more on the train most days, and I can carry small objects around (e.g. phones, tablets or books), but I obviously can't carry large ones (like heavy laptops or desktop computers). So, if I actually want to make that time useful, GoGoD is pointless, because I have to leave it at home. My time is better spent if I pay twice as much money on far less information by buying a single go book - which I simply can't afford to do, so I don't do it. The inability to find cheap, portable resources which are a good use of both my time and my money is hampering my development as a player.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:46 am
by Bill Spight
Should we look forward to GoGoFD (Go Games on Flash Drive)?
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:58 am
by billywoods
Bill Spight wrote:Should we look forward to GoGoFD (Go Games on Flash Drive)?
I would like to be able to look forward to a completely medium-agnostic, platform-agnostic
Go Games.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:45 pm
by deja
billywoods wrote:...completely medium-agnostic, platform-agnostic Go Games.
CMAPAGG.
Hmmm, doesn't quite roll off the tongue as eloquently as GoGoD, but then I grew up in Minnesota.
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:39 pm
by Bill Spight
deja wrote:billywoods wrote:...completely medium-agnostic, platform-agnostic Go Games.
CMAPAGG.
Hmmm, doesn't quite roll off the tongue as eloquently as GoGoD, but then I grew up in Minnesota.
Agnostic? Hmmmm.
How about GoGoDless?
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:54 pm
by Bonobo
Bill Spight wrote:deja wrote:billywoods wrote:...completely medium-agnostic, platform-agnostic Go Games.
CMAPAGG.
Hmmm, doesn't quite roll off the tongue as eloquently as GoGoD, but then I grew up in Minnesota.
Agnostic? Hmmmm.
How about GoGoDless?
Re: How to study shape?
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:17 am
by TMark
billywoods wrote:Charles Matthews wrote:if you are going to be technically snobbish, you are hampering your development as a player
This comment annoys me, for two reasons.
Firstly, are you aware that CD-ROM drives are being slowly phased out by some large computer manufacturers? I don't think I remember the last time I held a CD or a DVD in my hand, because they're useless lumps of plastic that have since been superseded, but more importantly than my opinion is that this opinion is very widespread. This means that it's (slowly) becoming harder and harder to buy machines that will read CDs. It is technological snobbery to publish valuable resources in only a single medium which some people cannot access. It is not technological snobbery to ask for it to be made more widely available.
Any buyer who has asked me for delivery on a USB device has, naturally, received it that way. I have been looking at switching entirely for some time and I will keep it under review.
[Minor rant] Anybody here should know that both John and I are fairly responsive to the members of the Go community. It pisses me off slightly that a number of posters above seemed to assume that we would take no notice of the fact that some people could not buy GoGoD and would do nothing about it. [/rant]
Best wishes.