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Re:
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:52 pm
by Drewch
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I hope that I am not coming across as not appreciate
Not at all, no problem. This whole discussion is very interesting to me because I can see the different thought processes at work!
Good
I am an extremely logical person also, so I was just waiting for you to play a trump card on me that makes me realize the contradiction in my logic. Then I will see everything much clearer, once my logic proved wrong. I do this because it will last much longer and be a better lesson if I see the logic in it, rather then just being told a "Go saying" that I should think about before every move or something. Then I even know when it applies and when it doesn't
Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 11:00 pm
by EdLee
Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I now see that the corner is "bigger" because it takes WAY less moves to secure the corner or side then it does the middle.
One problem with the original phrasing of the questions was the ambiguous (and Go) usage of "big".
You're correct in your last diagram that the entire center (B's territory) had more points than the corner territory (W's).
But that's not the meaning in the question "In the opening, which is bigger -- side, corner, center ?"
Here, "big" encompasses the sense of "urgent" or "efficient". You got the correct conclusion.
Re:
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:20 am
by Drewch
EdLee wrote: Drewch,
Drewch wrote: I now see that the corner is "bigger" because it takes WAY less moves to secure the corner or side then it does the middle.
One problem with the original phrasing of the questions was the ambiguous (and Go) usage of "big".
You're correct in your last diagram that the entire center (B's territory) had more points than the corner territory (W's).
But that's not the meaning in the question "In the opening, which is bigger -- side, corner, center ?"
Here, "big" encompasses the sense of "urgent" or "efficient". You got the correct conclusion.
@EdLee
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 8:33 am
by hyperpape
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 9:30 am
by EdLee
hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote: What good does it do to point out a broken shape in a joseki that white more or less played acceptably?
Which shape are you referring to? For example, there's a broken shape in this common joseki:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$The one in their game, is it joseki?
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:31 am
by hyperpape
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:43 am
by EdLee
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:22 pm
by Drewch
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Sorry, I thought it was Boidhre's turn this whole time =\
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:26 pm
by Boidhre
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:28 pm
by Drewch
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Re:
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:38 pm
by jts
EdLee wrote: hyperpape,
hyperpape wrote: What good does it do to point out a broken shape in a joseki that white more or less played acceptably?
Which shape are you referring to? For example, there's a broken shape in this common joseki:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$The one in their game, is it joseki?
There are a huge number of variations listed for the position that you
'd on Josekipedia, and all the moves up to that point are listed as "ideal". I think that's all hyperpape is saying. Here we are at move fifteen in one variation:
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$W
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:53 pm
by Boidhre
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
This was being far too peaceful anyway. This move looks interesting to me.
Let's see if he's willing to exchange the corner for the outside. This is going to get complicated though which should suit Drewch.
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm
by Drewch
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:11 pm
by Boidhre
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
Re: #163 Boidhre vs Drewch
Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:12 pm
by Drewch
$$Bcm1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1
'd on Josekipedia, and all the moves up to that point are listed as "ideal". I think that's all hyperpape is saying. Here we are at move fifteen in one variation: