Life In 19x19

Have to draw back - as mentioned before I'm not too worried about bottom at this moment, though a move to protect is becoming more and more attractive.

I first think about going into the corner (variations where I play a standard approach seem awful, but I haven't thought much about a submarine type play). Then I'd be faced with trying to find a good reduction move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My hunch is that the play where he takes sente would actually be better for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wm30 Capture at a, atari at b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 4 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 7 6 a |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Rather impulsive decision. I think this has two advantages: it does not give Black as much (probable) thickness as simply invading. Second, if black plays simple moves to push down and get outside thickness, it will face down, and I think between my strong corner group and his pair of low stones, he will have to work harder to profit. Thus, I think this move sets Black a challenge to coordinate his stones. Invading the corner gives Black a straightforward plan. This may not give me any advantage, but I like the idea that I'm not making things straightforward for my opponent.

The downside is that unlike the 3-3 move, I don't know followups well, and run the chance of getting myself killed or living a tiny and ignominious life.

I have a hunch that playing to the left may have even been better, but I can't predict anything about how that would turn out.

Fact: I did not know that "ignominious" had an 'in' in the center of it. Three cheers for browser spellcheck.

Mmm, that's a somewhat uncommon move as far as I know. I thought I had one of three choices:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . a b c . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think any of the above could be playable. a is perhaps the most consistent with my more influence-based position (though b and then press down instead of blocking corner when white extends also seem to work). However, I want to play a bit more aggressively and deny the base in corner.

By the way, if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a more detailed analysis of the three options that I considered.

hyperpape wrote:it does not give Black as much (probable) thickness as simply invading.

Two questions:
(1) How is not "simply invading" ? In other words, what would you call if not "simply invading" ?
(2) Could you give at least 2 variations to illustrate your point: one with more "thickness", and one with less "thickness" ?

illluck wrote:By the way, if anyone is interested, I'd be happy to provide a more detailed analysis of the three options that I considered.

Yes, I'm interested in how you picked over the ramming option (b). Thanks.

Hmmm, gives W a chance with (or even (b)) ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 1 . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . b X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Yes, you're right. I was thinking of the 33 invasion, which I'd referenced in the last post, and sloppily called that "simply invading". See that diagram for the thickness I don't want to give Black.

I think that last move was a mistake - seems like white should play one line to the left instead because here it's not easy to either run out or live locally. I considered just playing the attachment one line to the right of my current move, but though that white can just play second line hane and it's not clear how the attachment is better than this one-space pincer

First, I should mention that I'm still unsure about my choice and therefore my justification will probably be pretty unconvincing/incoherent. Nevertheless, I'll take a stab at trying to explain my decision. It's also worth nothing that I don't think any of those three choices are particularly bad in this situation, and my choice was largely based on preference.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . a b c . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So, my first instinct was that either a (because it completes an outside) or b (take corner and chase white a bit). I then thought a made more sense because it seems more reasonable given the board state (makes no sense for me to try to chase white when my top is not that that develop-able - for example, I wasn't that happy with below (though it may just be my bad judgement):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 4 . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One more issue with above is that there are weaknesses around a that remains.

So, my preference then was to seal white inside. But then I was sort of unhappy to give up the corner for relatively uncertain potential outside (since my right side is on third-line and white is quite solid almost everywhere).

The main issue was that I could not find a way to seal in sente, for example:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a . . . . 3 . 1 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . 9 X 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . b . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X c . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Then there are a lot of nice points for white (a, b, c only a subset).

Looking at it now, I'm not that would have been bad, but I really wanted some points to not have so much pressure to take a big centre. In addition, I also thought that the 3rd line stones on the right side makes taking corner and driving white out more attractive.

Another possibility is below, which will likely end in sente for me, but I didn't like the cuts it left after white lives in corner (though again, looking at it now, it doesn't seem too bad).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So I once again came back to the idea of taking corner and forcing white outside. My main concern, then, is on how I should try to end up in a better position on the top side (since it's sort of open). I thought the bump helped white a bit by giving an extra extension on the second line and therefore a bit wider extension on the top. Additionally, I wasn't as concerned about the top right weakness again because I'm likely to get another move to protect.

I don't know how accurate my assessments were and whether I've expressed my pretty fragmented thoughts coherently enough. Let me know if you would like any clarifications or have questions

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 3 . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the obvious followup, then he can play to protect on the top or bottom side. I suspect the top is more urgent. The bottom is a bit smaller, since no single move completely protects it, while the top bears on the relative strength of the two groups.

Expected as there's not sufficient eyespace to live locally. I think I'll just play normally - this can be considered as a transposition of below, which is a good sequence for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 3 . 2 . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X . O . . . . X . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]