[go]$$Wc Score - B: 31, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . B m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Just to confirm the rules as I understand them for our purposes, each player gets one scan per game, and the coordinate scanned as well as the result are hidden from the other player.
I don't want to use my scan yet because I'll probably just miss, and I don't see any "ko threat" on the board that he could have played that is a total disaster for me if ignored. I'll probably use my scan later, once there are fewer useful points for his hidden stone to be; or even better, I'll figure out where his stone is based on him making otherwise strange moves and/or me playing on top of it. For example, maybe his hidden stone is on one of the two points necessary to cut the kosumi I just made, and his next move will be to complete the cut. But then I'll know where his hidden stone is without having to scan.
One thing I learned playing Magic: The Gathering is that you can't hold back all game because you're afraid your opponent might have a certain card in his hand. Then you're giving him an advantage even if he doesn't have it. So you almost have to play under the assumption that he doesn't have it, and then if he does, at least you forced him to play it out, and you can play on from there with a clear head. So I'm using the same philosophy here with the hidden stone. I can't go around the board playing half-baked moves because I'm afraid his hidden stone will negate what I play. I almost (again, ALMOST) have to play as though there is no hidden stone at all, which will force him to reveal its presence.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:32 pm
by Phelan
You can move there, that is, didn't hit his hidden move.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:45 pm
by topazg
$$Wc Score - B: 31, W: 18 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 31, W: 17 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 2 . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . 3 . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Now my stone becomes handy. Of course, I don't know where his is, so who knows whether this is going to become a disaster or not. The gamble is on !
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:51 pm
by Phelan
topazg hasn't hit MountainGo's hidden as well.
I believe that me confirming this every move is a bit pointless. I think it makes more sense for me to reveal when the opponent does hit your stone, or confirm your revelation.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:09 pm
by MountainGo
Phelan wrote:topazg hasn't hit MountainGo's hidden as well.
I believe that me confirming this every move is a bit pointless. I think it makes more sense for me to reveal when the opponent does hit your stone, or confirm your revelation.
Yeah, the reason I sent you that PM was just to confirm that Graham's hidden stone wasn't on mine. Otherwise we can just check each other.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:46 pm
by Phelan
Ah, no. There was no collision between hidden moves, or I would have said something.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:12 am
by gaius
freegame wrote:
I think scans are hidden - you just tell me if I found his hidden stone or not. If not, then that's fine too
So after a scan your opponent does not know if you fount the hidden stone or not... interesting.
I would have expected the scan and result not to be a secret.
From the pro-games I've seen, I'm reasonably certain that you are correct, and that in Batoo the scan location is open.
By the way Laurens, shall we interpret the rule that way in our game?
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:03 am
by MountainGo
$$Wc Score - B: 32, W: 18 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O B . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 32, W: 18 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O B . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . . . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
I wonder if this is where his hidden stone is. I like this move because it connects back to my hidden stone without making it look like that. I still don't want to scan, because I feel like there could come a moment when it is critical that I know where his stone is, and this is not such a moment. Also, 2 points isn't nothing.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:55 am
by topazg
$$Wc Score - B: 32, W: 19 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | p . . . . . W . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 33, W: 19 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O X . . . . | $$ | p . . . . B O . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
If you think there are a lot of variations in a regular go game, try adding special ones for "and if his stone is here..." and "and if he thinks my stone is there..."! It just becomes ridiculous. Probably the worst (for me) place for his hidden stone to be right now is H7, which makes a lot of sense looking back at the board position when he played it. I could scan there, but for now, knowing for sure that it's there wouldn't really change what I play by much. For now I can't resist this move, which is an atari with my hidden stone but still looks plausible even without it. If I'm lucky I'll get to pull the rug out from under him later by capturing his last move.
On another note, his last move would be bizarre if he knew where my stone was, which tells me that he doesn't know. That makes it even better to try to continue his ignorance...
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:37 pm
by topazg
$$Wc Score - B: 33, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O X W . . . | $$ | p . . . . X O . . . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 34, W: 20 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . | $$ | . . m O . . . X m . . | $$ | . . O . . . X . @ . . | $$ | . . . . . O X O . . . | $$ | p . . . . X O . B . p | $$ | . X # X . . . . O . . | $$ | . O O m X . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O # . . X m . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Well, here we go. He'll know where my hidden stone is now, but I've done some counting, and I'm just not going to get enough points unless I try for something mildly ambitious. Best case scenario, I take over the lower right area of the board, and all my stones on the board survive. Worst case scenario, his hidden stone is somewhere I totally didn't expect, and I suddenly lose. Right now I'm guessing his stone is on G9.
Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:50 am
by Aphelion
MountainGo, could you show your hidden stone in hide tags? Its really hard to follow the game without knowing.