That White approach seems pretty standard to me, it threatens to take away the Black base with either H3 or just the slide at L2. Any further back and it would lack severity.That said, I really feel that O3 needed to be at N4.
This move might be standard in other boards, but on this one, it is timed too early and thus it is not correct. At least, black is in no rush to try to live this early. In my opinion, black could've ignored and attacked the lone white stone on the left side and gained a lot more. Still, what happened in game is even more surprising. White's O3 is definitely awkward.
Well, that makes my life a little easier. Time to attack again.
I don't think the cut at R6 is any real danger right now, but I have one eye on that position. Black has a nice little move at R8 attacking both the R6 cut and the Q10 stone. I'll have to think about how I want to handle that ... it's not going to stop me from playing R13, though.
I mentioned a number of moves back that this was one of the big moves I wanted to get at some point. Now feels like the right time to make this attack.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 2:52 pm
by Marcus
Wow, looks like there's some interest in the game, given the number of observer's comments.
Please, feel free to ask questions of me. I'm always willing to elaborate on my thoughts.
I'm thinking of playing this. It secures a nice corner, and he has to take gote if he wants to protect the right side. I'm also eyeing the cut at r6. He can't protect both of these, so his right is smaller than it appears.
Same here about the questions. Also, I'd like to hear an opinion on the style of my commentary. Should I go for more variations? Give some more explanations of basic concepts?
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:56 pm
by topazg
Aphelion wrote:
That White approach seems pretty standard to me, it threatens to take away the Black base with either H3 or just the slide at L2. Any further back and it would lack severity.That said, I really feel that O3 needed to be at N4.
I don't like the approach at all. Black can simply just ignore it and invade the 3-3 straight away, his lower group is not in the slightest bit of danger, and if White really wants to undermine it by jumping under at the 2nd line, let him I say!
Also, I would play O3 at N3, and aim towards R4 to settle the corner completely for lots of territory. I think it is uncomfortable for Black to tenuki after N3, yet Black has no followups that are sente, giving White the opportunity to take the corner in a big way.
Both players are leaving crazy corner aji all over the place
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:26 pm
by Aphelion
That might not be the best move on the board, but locally I think its the correct play. White definitely should not play one space to the right, thats just lukewarm and the corner is still open regardless.
I never thought of that approach as a territory play - to me its just to extend white's framework while attacking.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:30 pm
by topazg
Aphelion wrote:
That might not be the best move on the board, but locally I think its the correct play. White definitely should not play one space to the right, thats just lukewarm and the corner is still open regardless.
I never thought of that approach as a territory play - to me its just to extend white's framework while attacking.
I don't think it does much of anything. It doesn't make territory, it doesn't attack, it just pokes loosely at a strong group and leaves weaknesses in the corner. O3 at least makes a proper shape in the lower right with regards to the right side extension, and allows a rather more severe attack followup at K2. M3 is just a little bit of not much
See my reasoning before. He can tenuki only if he is okay with being open skirted.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:04 pm
by Marcus
Still thinking, gonna take some time on this move.
I'm not good with influence.
By my rough count, just looking at territory, B is ahead by +25. I have the 6.5 komi, but that means I need to catch up by at least 20 points or so in the middle game and end game.
I could close off the upper left weakness at S13, but it feels like that's not worth as much as it could be. R8 is still there for Black to attack with.
I could take R8 myself.
I could also tenuki again, but I'm not sure there's an area of the board that I can gain more points from.
Give me a bit of time to see if I can bring all my stones into sync.
that is a good move but! i would play differently. i think it is a perfect time to split that weak group. if white use sente to take that big big point black might cover that weak point by expanding influence. kind of like big vs urgent thing. i guess it fits my aggresive style of playing.
i am not saying i am right but ...that is might thought.
you are correct. it is not the right time. but i would have played it if it was a handycap game that aji is BAD for black...that is why i am keep looking at that point.
$$Wcm38 Move 38 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X X O X X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X O X W . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O 2 O X 3 5 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm38 Move 38 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X X O X X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X O X W . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O 2 O X 3 5 . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:42 am
by topazg
Yes, I certainly agree there's a lot of bad aji there. I'd be tempted to play somewhere above the group so when you pull out with 38 in your last diagram you've actually got a proper splitting attack going on. If you can get a move above the group in sente (as Black defends inside) then it works very well with White's need to make a globally good moyo.
