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Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:51 pm
by Annihilist
$$Bm11 Game
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One thing I've learned from this game is how much your "reading" can just be going through a sequence which you wish would happen. This move was a surprise.
I don't really want to capture his
stone, so my hope is he connects. Then I can nobi towards the bottom and his two 3-4 stones look a little sad. So I would attack them while trying to escape along the bottom side and settle my group there.
I will probably nobi no matter what he does, leaving his one stone in atari in case it becomes useful. Unless he tries to extend along the bottom. In which case I'll make escaping my priority and push out the right side.
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:57 am
by otenki
$$Bm11 Game
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Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:15 am
by EdLee
otenki wrote: Obvious response. Corner needs to be blocked, wedge is aji for shape on both sides.
For beginners. This is ridiculous. The wedge
was bad, but letting B ponnuki IN SENTE is worse.
The only move is to connect with
(even if the result is bad for W; that's because of earlier mistakes by W).
$$W
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Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:56 pm
by Annihilist
$$Bm21 Game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm21 Game
Kind of expected, but the more I think about it, the more dire this situation is.
I was going to push:out and aim for a result like this.
$$Bm21 Game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm21 GameResulting in an extremely heavy eyeless group, but still ways to escape, and if I manage to his groups are split.
But I can't read that far. The last thing I want is to add more to a dead group, or a group I'm not sure can live in the long term. So tenuki.
The shimari seems like the best move. It more-or-less secures this corner, and he has to fight harder to get it. Next I'll move to the lower right, depending on his move. Unless he spends a move trying to kill my lower left group, I still have the same aji there so I'll leave it for later. I expect maybe an attack on my left group or an attempt to save his upper corner stone. I think I can deal with either.
I shimari'd on this side because I'm stronger up top, and should lend a little to the right.
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:35 pm
by The Intrepid
When trying to save a group, you can try to run, you can try to live, but you can also try to fight. The three marked White stones are incredibly weak. No need to run when you can capture your opponent's stones (by playing at "a" instead of
, for example).
$$Bm21 Annihilist's diagram + emphasis on weak White stones
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm21 Annihilist's diagram + emphasis on weak White stones
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:36 am
by EdLee
For beginners. tenuki is strange. Capturing with
in sente seems the only move:
$$B
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Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:13 am
by otenki
$$Bm21 Game
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I guess I'll fix my shape but he gets another move white i'm at it
Not sure how I'm going to win this game anymore. I just hope he makes a mistake somewhere.
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:51 am
by Annihilist
$$Bm21 Game
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Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 8:00 am
by otenki
$$Bm21 Game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm21 Game
I told myself whathever happens I won't make broken shape moves anymore in this game.
As my korean children go books would say: Hané ? -> Extend!
For beginners:
The common answer to a bend around your stone (hané) is an extend of the hané'd stone.
You can see examples of it here:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?AttachExtend
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:36 pm
by EdLee
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wotenki wrote: As my korean children go books would say: Hané ? -> Extend!
For beginners. Go is very difficult. In this case, the joseki move is to pull back at
(then B hane
), not the extend of
.
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 5:54 pm
by skydyr
@edlee
EdLee wrote: $$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wotenki wrote: As my korean children go books would say: Hané ? -> Extend!
For beginners. Go is very difficult. In this case, the joseki move is to pull back at
(then B hane
), not the extend of
.
In this case, white's move may be somewhat suboptimal, but it seems playable, as opposed to just failing. Maybe an invitation to cut and fight.
Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:09 pm
by EdLee
skydyr, you're correct,
is not a game-over move, certainly not at these levels. That's not the point.
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Botenki wrote: As my korean children go books would say: Hané ? -> Extend!The common answer to a bend around your stone (hané) is an extend of the hané'd stone.
(my emphasis in
Red )
For beginners. The point is this: it's important to know the
dangers of proverbs.
For the above corner shape, a database shows 375 games for (a) pull-back, versus 5 for (b) extend (out of 50,744 pro games).
So the pros don't follow the proverbs quoted by otenki for this shape (except for rare cases).
Another example -- for the following: 7,887 games for (a) pull-back, versus 82 for (b) descend (of 50,744 games).
(Similar to the above.)
$$B
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Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:38 am
by Annihilist
$$Bm21 Game
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bm21 GameAlso I'm going to be away after Tuesday for a few days, just thought I should mention.
Re: #204 Annihilist vs Otenki
Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:27 am
by otenki
$$Bm21 Game
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:24 am
by EdLee
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Botenki wrote: I don't like my shape. I'll try to fix it but I'm not sure it will be good even after.
For beginners. This time otenki is correct -- there is a
push-and-cut at (a).
This is one reason the joseki move is the pull-back at (a), instead of the extend
(
).
stone, so my hope is he connects. Then I can nobi towards the bottom and his two 3-4 stones look a little sad. So I would attack them while trying to escape along the bottom side and settle my group there. 
was bad, but letting B ponnuki IN SENTE is worse.
(even if the result is bad for W; that's because of earlier mistakes by W).
, for example).
tenuki is strange. Capturing with 
in sente seems the only move:
), not the extend of 
.
push-and-cut at (a).