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Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:37 am
by illluck
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:15 am
by The Intrepid
I'm not sure that that's better than what might happen in the game.
$$Wcm15
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm15The marked White group has more eyespace and is stronger than in the next diagram:
$$Bcm18
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm18
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:48 pm
by illluck
@the Intrepid:
I think the point you raised is very valid. My reason for thinking the simple hane is better is that with the game sequence first white can hane when black plays the hane and the cut is not immediately workable (e.g. As below). The advantage is that the extend at "a"is sente later. However, that cut is much more annoying and white's shape is considerably worse than the sequence you proposed. The sente extension is also not worth very much. So now I agree with you that the game move first is better.
$$Bcm18
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm18
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:39 pm
by ikkyu
$$cm10 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm10 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I suspect half of the comments on the game are about how badly I'm doing.
Anyway, thoughts
$$cm1 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm1 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 whiteYes, I'm ceding the corner. No, I don't see a way to reclaim it. What I can do is to build influence and attack what can be attacked, i.e. white's upper group.
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:38 pm
by billywoods
$$cm10 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm10 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:35 am
by ikkyu
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
After sleeping a bit, finishing a book that I was reading, and having a weird dream that's still bothering me a little, I've come to the conclusion that putting white's Q7 stone in atari by playing Q8 is not sente and would allow white to strengthen his top group. That would be really bad for me. I can easily see the following:
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 whiteCertainly not the end of the world, but much better for white. Then I might play a, b, or c (or something else) and I'm not sure how it might go from there.
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:01 pm
by billywoods
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:00 pm
by ikkyu
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 8:19 pm
by billywoods
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:43 pm
by EdLee
ikkyu,
ikkyu wrote: I got nothing
Could you elaborate what you meant by that?
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:52 am
by ikkyu
Ed (and really anyone else),
What I meant was that I saw white’s approach and I couldn’t really figure out what to do. The only time I can recall that type of approach is when the 4-4 stone already has a knights enclosure like this:
$$
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$So I wasn’t sure what to do. I have always heard that one of the things black should do in a high handicap game is to keep white separated and out of the middle. I thought about playing the 3-3, but felt that that was too passive and violated this principle. I thought about tenuki, but didn’t want to risk my 4-4 stone coming under pressure without strengthening it first (and I wanted to do a better job of it than I did in the lower right-hand corner).
So I chose a simple extension, which would keep white out of the middle, strengthen my 4-4 stone, and is fairly simple.
The other reason I wrote it was because it was at the end of a long day, a long week, and a long month and my brain’s fried. I have no idea how anyone with a full-time job and young kids has the energy to play this game. But I wanted to play something to keep the game moving and I felt that the worst case scenario for me is that I play something bad, in which case I get to learn from it (again, like in the lower right-hand corner).
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:17 pm
by ikkyu
$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$cm20 Prisoners: 0 black, 0 white
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:28 pm
by EdLee
ikkyu,
ikkyu wrote: I have always heard that one of the things black should do in a high handicap game is ...
( Also for beginners. ) This is a common problem with proverbs and "rules" -- they are merely guidelines.
The difficult part is to figure out when something applies, and when it fails.
For this, we need a lot of (painful) experience. We must decide case by case,
for each particular local and global situation.
Proverbs and guidelines do
not have the final say.
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:58 pm
by ikkyu
Re: #219 ikkyu vs. billywoods
Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:03 pm
by skydyr