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Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:45 am
by skydyr
The Intrepid wrote: $$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.
I'm not sure I see why this is sente?
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:04 am
by hyperpape
skydyr wrote:
The Intrepid wrote: $$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.
I'm not sure I see why this is sente?
$$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23$$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23 I guess the second could be playable for White, but I think I'd respond.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:23 am
by Bill Spight
Note: Previous post (
viewtopic.php?p=146895#p146895 ) unhidden.
$$Bcm25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm25 shows incredible confidence or lack of awareness.
$$Bcm25
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm25A center play may be objectively better, but I think that this play gives White more chances to catch up. White can get a base on the side plus access to the center.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:33 am
by Kirby
Bill Spight wrote: $$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcIf the choice is between "a" and "b" there is really no contest, is there? The next two diagrams illustrate my heuristic for comparison.
$$Bc Option 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 1$$Bc Option 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 2Edit: Well, maybe it's not so obvious, eh?
Later edit: Unhidden. BTW, Black got both.
So I guess the conclusion is that you think I should have played this way:
$$Bc Option 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 2Thanks for the tip!
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:03 pm
by The Intrepid
Whoa, stuff's getting unhidden. Perhaps it's a bit early for this. Who knows, maybe Kirby was thinking he was doing fine, but after the reveal thinks he needs to resort to desperate measures ... like tenuki-ing from the top-right!
Talk of desperate measures! I can fight a ko to kill that corner, I think, which is worth some 20 points. Is White's last move really worth more than that?
I doubt it. Time for some
.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:31 pm
by skydyr
hyperpape wrote: skydyr wrote:
The Intrepid wrote: $$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23This move is meant to gain thickness in sente. Next, I'll play on the top side.
I'm not sure I see why this is sente?
$$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23$$Bcm23
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm23 I guess the second could be playable for White, but I think I'd respond.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:32 am
by The Intrepid
$$Bcm33
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm33
I thought about playing in the corner, but what if Kirby does not respond there? Then, I'd be left with 20 points of corner territory. What the hell am I supposed to do with that? This is Takemiya style, yo. Moyo or death!
A possible continuation:
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc$$Wcm11
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm11The result is that Black sacrificed several points to obtain greater thickness in the center.
I do not believe that Black should go for the following:
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcWhite stones in the center would fall under severe attack, but Black's four stones are also floating. I believe White would be able to use this fact to save his three stones, possibly destroying much of Black's moyo. In the very least, playing this way would carry unnecessary risk for Black, given that the alternative is perfectly fine.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:25 pm
by Bill Spight
Kirby wrote: Bill Spight wrote: $$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcIf the choice is between "a" and "b" there is really no contest, is there? The next two diagrams illustrate my heuristic for comparison.
$$Bc Option 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 1$$Bc Option 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 2Edit: Well, maybe it's not so obvious, eh?
Later edit: Unhidden. BTW, Black got both.
So I guess the conclusion is that you think I should have played this way:
$$Bc Option 2
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Option 2Thanks for the tip!
No, that is not the conclusion.
I said,
if the question were which of those plays to make. Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:08 pm
by The Intrepid
Bill Spight wrote: Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner.
Bill, do you mean an approach toward the top-right corner?
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:29 pm
by Bill Spight
The Intrepid wrote: Bill Spight wrote: Actually, I lean towards an approach to the top left corner.
Bill, do you mean an approach toward the top-right corner?
Oh, right!
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:48 pm
by Kirby
$$Bcm33
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm33
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:43 pm
by The Intrepid
OK, here we go!
The deciding moment of the Takemiya-style game has arrived. Black built a huge moyo, and White was forced to invade it. If the invasion succeeds and much of the moyo vanishes, White will be ahead. If Black kills the invasion or saves much of the moyo, Black will be in the lead.
I need to think here for a bit.
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:28 am
by Shaddy
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:41 am
by MJK
Re: #225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:32 pm
by bayu
Kirby:
It's too early to resign. The game might already be over, but that's not the point. People will still find it interesting to follow and to comment. And for intrepid, I think that turning a moyo into profit is part of what he calls Takemiya style (besides, he is thinking hard). So please, take it as a teaching game and let him and the observers enjoy the show, till the big fat kill (or till the endgame, who knows). There are kyus 'round here. And the popularity of the thread speaks for itself. We like you. And continuing the game is appreciated.
Kirby wrote: I really am a bad player...
I don't think that this attitude is helpful. Show some spirit, sensei!
shows incredible confidence or lack of awareness.
Talk of desperate measures! I can fight a ko to kill that corner, I think, which is worth some 20 points. Is White's last move really worth more than that? 
I doubt it. Time for some 
.
