Life In 19x19

At your level, undoubtly. There may be others that fits, but this one will fit

I didn't get much out if Kageyama's book. The only thing I learned was to read out ladders properly. And indeed that helped me in a couple of matches. But I am not sure whether it's worth to purchase that book for this tiny bit of knowledge. When I read it I was around 15-17 kyu. I'll give it a try again soon and let's see what I will get out of it.

A question to those who got something out of that book:
What exactly did you get out of it, and what was your strength at that time?

I still think it's an "attitude to become strong" book, more than a "get stronger" book. But that's what MadsS seems to want.

karaklis wrote:I didn't get much out if Kageyama's book. The only thing I learned was to read out ladders properly. And indeed that helped me in a couple of matches. But I am not sure whether it's worth to purchase that book for this tiny bit of knowledge. When I read it I was around 15-17 kyu. I'll give it a try again soon and let's see what I will get out of it.

A question to those who got something out of that book:
What exactly did you get out of it, and what was your strength at that time?

I first read it I think mid SDK, and have read it probably 5 or 6 times since then. What did I get out of it?

1) Read. Don't assume good instinct on whether something works or play purely on gut. Read. If it works, play it, if it doesn't, don't.
2) Don't be frightened to play a slow looking move if it is a proper move. If an enemy stone in your territory has bad aji left, then either you can kill it on a big scale without doing anything locally, or play a move that kills the aji outright - don't play some half way in between move.
3) The race to get ahead is crucial. Do it as soon as you can, extending / being pushed just because you can do it safely is unacceptable. The second you can jump ahead, you jump ahead.
4) Don't be frightened to give up the corner for thickness.
5) Territory isn't territory just because there are a few stones scattered around.
6) Design a strategy around the game status. If you are ahead, play accordingly. If you are behind, play accordingly, but don't just play moves without assessing the current score balance first.

A few more things too, but those are the only things that come to mind so far.

Jonas wrote:I can recommend the book "Vital Points And Skillful Finesse For Sabaki" (http://senseis.xmp.net/?VitalPointsAndS ... eForSabaki) for players around 3k - 3d. Sadly the binding of the book has no good quality but the covered topics are really great. The moves that Yoda Norimoto is showing are feeling like magic to me.
Definitly a "should-read" for all people who like to invade deep and die struggling (like me )

I'm going through this book now (9k AGA) and I'm finding it to be a valuable and enjoyable read. It's insightful and inspiring for determining the best types of moves to play. It also does a good job at explaining/reminding the importance of position assessment and how locally good moves can destroy a whole board position. The couple cases that stick out to me are things like "'A' is normally sabaki, but in this case it wrecks the side, so 'B' is better (and here is why)" and "'A' gives life in the corner, but allows no targets for the future, which 'B' does allow (and here is why)"

karaklis wrote:I didn't get much out if Kageyama's book. The only thing I learned was to read out ladders properly. And indeed that helped me in a couple of matches. But I am not sure whether it's worth to purchase that book for this tiny bit of knowledge. When I read it I was around 15-17 kyu. I'll give it a try again soon and let's see what I will get out of it.

A question to those who got something out of that book:
What exactly did you get out of it, and what was your strength at that time?

I read it recently and it gave me a lot actually. I went from strong 2k/ weak 1k to able to have close games with 2-3 dan in like two or three weeks! I see the game in a different light now. It could also have to do with motivation though But it is easily the best book I have read

Wow, I wouldn't suspect it could have such impact when already 1k ! I have to reread it

As to my concern, I read it when around 15k, and I think it took a great part at making me around 10k (slowly, but I'm slow anyway). As I said, my 3 favorite books are this one, Attack and Defense, and Making Good Shape.

Lessons in the Fundamentals suggests which topics to study while Joseki Vol. 1 Fundamentals does study in detail those of the topics closely related to joseki. My book can also be considered to override Direction of Play and teaches more principles on some topics in greater detail and accuracy than Fundamental Principles of Go.

The way I look at Kageyama's "Lessons" is this: if you like motivational-type books, you'll probably love Lessons. If you don't, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.

Personally, I never particularly cared for Lessons (nor do I like motivational books), but I can see why others would like it.

Helel, I hope this summer or autumn.

Btw, I wouldn't class ABCs of Attack and Defence as advanced. I would say a 10-15k could read it and appreciate it in its entirety. I think it has some application to lower kyus as well, in fact it's a really nice clear book for anyone to read. Overall though I would say the material is more elementary than that found in Attack and Defence.

Oroth wrote:Btw, I wouldn't class ABCs of Attack and Defence as advanced. I would say a 10-15k could read it and appreciate it in its entirety. I think it has some application to lower kyus as well, in fact it's a really nice clear book for anyone to read. Overall though I would say the material is more elementary than that found in Attack and Defence.

I Found Frickensweat's comments (GD) on the subject illuminating:


"I have read both of these books plus ABC's of Attack and Defense and Break Through to Shodan.

I did not read them in this oder but here is what I would think would be appropriate or how I wish I would have read them.

Attack and Defense- great for looking at the tools or ideas that you need to have.

ABC's of Attack and Defense- Puts the above into real game situation using 6-3 stone handi cap games.

Kato's Attack and Kill- Gives more indepth looks into attacking with the knights move and capping plays.

Break Through to Shodan- expands on ABC's using primarily 3 stone handicap games."


Anyway, I've only read a couple beginner books so far, but this thread has been helpful in sorting out what books might be best to read next.

schultz wrote:

Tryphon wrote:BUT WHERE IS KAGEYAMA ??????? It's also a book worth reading once when you're weak, and constantly reread

C'mon guys, you couldn't have read Kageyama and haven't noticed his awful style. I think he is trying to copy Charlie Chaplin, to make his book funny and the result is a total crap. His book is worth only for my wood - burner.

Stefany93 wrote:

schultz wrote:

Tryphon wrote:BUT WHERE IS KAGEYAMA ??????? It's also a book worth reading once when you're weak, and constantly reread

C'mon guys, you couldn't have read Kageyama and haven't noticed his awful style. I think he is trying to copy Charlie Chaplin, to make his book funny and the result is a total crap. His book is worth only for my wood - burner.

the book is good if there are so many people that enjoy it. your opinion is a complete different thing, and that book helped a lot players to improve. you are in no position to make such a claim. I mean, wtf. Charlie Chaplin? as far as I can remember, most of Chaplin movies dont even have words, so I do not see a book copying them. only my opinion btw.

The opinions about this book are highly split. I have read it once as DDK and once as SDK - the second time to check whether I would change my mind about this book. I didn't, I still don't like it, though there are some parts that are better than others. I liked particularly the parofessionals' match at the end of the book (Kageyama's "master piece"). As for the other parts there are other books that explain the relative topic much better. And apart from the beginning of the book (about ladders and nets) this is not appropriate for beginners either. This book rather seems to be designed to relax and get amused than to extract knowledge from it that could help you with your go play.