Prokovich game

For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
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Dusk Eagle
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Dusk Eagle »

My prediction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , 6 . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . 5 X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 3 O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O 2 . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X 1 O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . 7 O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm101 ACTUAL GAME: Move 101. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . 1 X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm102 ACTUAL GAME: Move 102. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . 1 . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Harleqin »

I guess:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . a . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . b . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . c . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . W . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . 3 O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then a, b, or c seem interesting.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Harleqin wrote:I guess:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . a . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . b . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . c . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . W . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . 3 O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then a, b, or c seem interesting.


I'm not sure what black will do, but the moves above do not look profitable. Black 1 is aji keshi - I'd think that black wants to save it for a ko threat. Black 3 is gote.
It takes too long for me to count the size of various moves, so I'll just go on a hunch, playing at the juncture of two moyos:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , B . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm103 ACTUAL GAME: Move 103. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , . . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . 1 O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm104 ACTUAL GAME: Move 104. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , 1 . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Interest seems to be winding down. Should I wrap it up?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm105 ACTUAL GAME: Move 105. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O 1 . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Harleqin
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Harleqin »

I am still wondering which of (a b c) is biggest. Is 'c' even the right place there?

'a' might be White's "privilege", because his continuation is bigger than Black's when he gets this point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . c . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . a . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . b . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O B . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Dusk Eagle »

I think wrapping it up might be okay as long as you provide an SGF, just so we can see quickly how the rest of the endgame plays out.
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We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm106 ACTUAL GAME: Move 106. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
dfan
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm107 ACTUAL GAME: Move 107. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X 1 . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
ethanb
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by ethanb »

Sente - white has to defend E5 somehow.
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by dfan »

Yep.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm108 ACTUAL GAME: Move 108. Points from prisoners: B 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X X X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , X O . . O O O . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . O . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O O O O O O O . O . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . X O O X X X X . , O . . . . , . O . |
$$ | . X X X X . . . X . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X X . . O X . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . X . . . . X . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . O 1 O O X . . X . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . X X O X . . O X . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . O . X X O . X X . O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . O O X . . X O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now that we're clearly in yose, time for another poll about who's winning.
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KGS: Chew
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Re: Prokovich game

Post by Chew Terr »

I want black to win, but I think white's slightly ahead? That's just estimation though, not counting.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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