Life In 19x19

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Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=152

Page 34 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:55 pm
by daniel_the_smith
I'm ok with that.

OK, I think I see it now. I guess Violence wasn't joking in the thread where he said white could resign. I don't see how white can win once we have a solid quarter+ of the board. No way can white make his entire area into actual points, which they would have to to have a chance of equalizing.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 5 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 2 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The other hane doesn't work, btw...


White can't win this way either.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 3 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X 1 . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



...I haven't extensively read alternatives to :W2: in Joaz's diagram. Maybe ShapeNaji will come up with something. It'd be kinda disappointing for this game to come to a sudden end...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:39 pm
by shapenaji
Not Approved

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 111 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X W . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Does the prisoner count look right?
For the Aforementioned reasons

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:13 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To observers:
Ahhhhh...if you know that it has to be there you can find it. We have to play S15 at just the right time. It buys us a fourth liberty or a ko that black must win 3 times.


EDIT:
...maybe twice.


EDIT2:
It is a ko that they can't afford to lose. If they lose it, we capture their center group also. This is too good to be true. I must go back and read more.


EDIT3:
It looks real. I think they are doomed.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:28 pm
by shapenaji
Image

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:54 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
For observers:
The best that black can do on the right side is to get four liberties, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 4 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X W . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And if black tries a straightforward liberties race of white right side group vs black right side group, we win:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . 4 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 3 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black tries a liberties race of his right side group against our upper group, we have a trick to get an extra liberty:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . 2 1 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . 3 O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X a . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O c X O 4 b |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black must play both 'a' and 'b' before playing 'c'. We play one move at :w4: which requires that they play two moves. :twisted: This gives us an extra liberty.

So it continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . a O X b . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X c X O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 2 O O X 1 . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X d O O . X O O . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...where black has four possibilities ( 'a' - 'd' )

    Possibility 'a' looks like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . 1 O X 4 . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 C O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O C O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O . X O O . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 3 X O X O . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 2 O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O 1 O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...and we are ahead 5 liberties to 4.

    Possibility 'b' looks like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X 1 . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 C O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O C O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 1 . O X X . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...and we are ahead 6 to 4.

    Possibility 'c' looks like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . 6 3 4 . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X 2 . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 1 X O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O 5 |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc move 6 fills
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . O 4 O . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O 1 O . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X X X O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 3 O O 5 X . . X |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...and we are ahead 3 to 4 liberties.

    Possibility 'd' is the most interesting, and looks like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 4 . O X 3 . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 X O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 1 O O . X O O . |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . 1 O . O X X . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O 3 |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . X O . O X X . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 2 C O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . . X |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . . |
    $$ | . 3 O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...and this is the ko that black cannot afford to lose.

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Wc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O Z . 3 X O . O X X . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O Z Z . . 1 C O . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O Z . Z Z O . O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O Z O Z Z O O X X . . X |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O Z O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . Z O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . 2 O X . . . . O Z Z O X X X X O . . |
    $$ | . X O X . . . . O . Z Z O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...so instead black must defend like this:

    Click Here To Show Diagram Code
    [go]$$Bc
    $$ ---------------------------------------
    $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . X X O O . O X . . X O . O X X . . . |
    $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 3 X O . O X X . . |
    $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 2 . O O O X X . |
    $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 1 X . . X |
    $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
    $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . . |
    $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
    $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
    $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 4 |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
    $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
    $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
    $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

    ...and white is ahead 2 liberties to one.


Addendum:
Black can try to get a ko on the right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . 4 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 3 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 5 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 6 7 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...but white does not bite:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O 2 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . O |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O 3 |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So maybe black does best to try to get a ko like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 4 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X W . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 2 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . 0 . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X 9 . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O 8 . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 2 . 4 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 3 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 7 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and eventually white will have to win the ko at T6/T7. White only has to win it once. Black has to win it 7 times.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:44 am
by Gresil
The move number is wrong. White's last move can't have been 111.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11? W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's not like there's a choice.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:52 pm
by Violence
So many comments... I think Joaz thinks he has it in the bag, but I think Shapenaji will know better.

After extensive reading, I think we're going to end up slightly behind after this move, but depending on how many times we need to change moves, it'll still be a game.

So I retract my previous declaration of victory.

But I don't think this game is by any means over.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:07 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Approved, of course.
If white does this it looks like smooth sailing for us:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11? W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O B 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We also get too many liberties if white does this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11? W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 3 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O B 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 1 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this seems to work for us also:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11? W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X 4 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O B 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . 1 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White either has something good up their sleeve or in their pipe...

All diagrams seem terrible for white but I guess they will choose from the first two.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:49 pm
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:45 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11?+1 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Looking at a few options:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11?+1 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X B 1 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 3 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11?+1 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X B 1 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 2 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 11?+1 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O 1 . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X B . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, here's what I think: The second option just won't happen. The first option looks better than the third, so our opponents will pick the third. It looks similar to my recent diagrams, only with slightly more cutting points. A little concerning, but I see no better move. From a metagame perspective: this fight is for the game. Regardless of how many corrections are required, whoever wins the fight wins the game. As Joaz and Shape have not resigned yet, they have read out either 1) a solution or 2) enough opportunity to give hope. Shape is one of the best people at reading on the forum, so if he's confident enough to carry on, I'll pick the best move I see and soldier on.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:25 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Approved.

Gresil wrote:The move number is wrong. White's last move can't have been 111.


I believe that I am now approving move 116.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:26 pm
by shapenaji
Approved.

(no idea regarding the move numbering, but I trust Joaz)

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:34 pm
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 117 W52 B53
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X B . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I very nearly played R12...

Image

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:56 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved.

I still expect the sequence in my last post, still not sure how white will salvage this.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:47 am
by Violence
Approved.
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