[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I have to suggest Starts a fight that could work in our favor I think... The sequence goes through 5, then white varies by playing a, b or c... each one I think could work into our favor if responses are played right..
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X 5 b . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . a 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The only move, of course.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:57 pm
by topazg
Team:
Please can we have suggestions for at least the next 2 moves here - I want to see some thought processes laid out a bit if possible
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:09 pm
by Redundant
I vote for descend, as neither block works for black. If black blocks at b15, then we can b14. We have to crawl, but it is highly unlikely that black will be able to live and not regret it, given our thickness.
If black blocks on the other side, the previous discussion shows how one of black's groups is going to die.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:18 pm
by topazg
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I haven't read completely, but since Joaz thinks we can win the fight, this move and the one Jordus picked are the only two that seem even plausible. But my instinct tells me Jordus's is probably correct.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:29 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
To observers:
Actually, I was mis-remembering the move I wanted. The solid connection works when we have a ladder breaker.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 6 . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 4 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X 7 8 . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 3 1 6 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
However, I must say I'm a little surprised at the last few moves, I thought the standard sequence was fine, since we still got sente. I'm worried about the future.
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm50 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I haven't read completely, but since Joaz thinks we can win the fight, this move and the one Jordus picked are the only two that seem even plausible. But my instinct tells me Jordus's is probably correct.
@Fwiffo:
Ummm...I was kinda hoping that you would read completely. Or, at least this far:
$$Bcm50 White cannot prevent both 'a' and 'b'. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 4 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X 7 b . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 3 X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . a . 8 . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
@Jedo:
I'm worried too. Can you save us?
@Self:
MEMO: Never, ever play an obscure joseki in a teamovich game.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:48 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@Jedo:
matchbook.jpg (31.08 KiB) Viewed 6983 times
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:22 pm
by fwiffo
Black internal:
Well, yes, that was the kind of thing I was concerned about, but Jordus already suggested the only move I saw, so I threw out the only other idea I had. In a game I would never have played or , so I'm lost for getting us out of this pickle. I will spend some more time looking at it, please don't move until at least tomorrow.
Re: Teamovitch #1
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:28 pm
by Jordus
Black internal
$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . 3 X O O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 1 5 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . X O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . O X X . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O X . O O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X . . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O X . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . X O . O O . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X O , X X . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . X . O X . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Starts a fight that could work in our favor I think...
.
or 
, so I'm lost for getting us out of this pickle. I will spend some more time looking at it, please don't move until at least tomorrow.