Life In 19x19

Today I played two more games. One against my regular opponent, Zhong Feng, and one against one of the youngest kids in the class.

The game against Zhong Feng was another instance of getting to a won position and then not finishing it off. I'm really starting to like playing against him, because I feel I'm learning something. In class, he is well-known for his sloppy play and many overplays. The teacher also singles him out quite a bit in using some of his moves as the start of lectures. I often manage to punish his overplays but then I also have to have the reading to carry the game home. If I can beat him consistently, I think that could be one marker of my play having improved a bit. Unfortunately, we're going to the other go school tomorrow, so I'll have to wait until next week for a rematch.



The second game didn't feel very good but, somewhat to my surprise, Yan Laoshi didn't point out too many mistakes. Afterwards, he seemed pleased with black's play.



We got actual homework this time around. We need to finish 210 tesuji problems for next class, which is next thursday. For once, I'm not postponing my homework. I'm doing these right away.

A new student arrived two days ago. He's an Austrian player, ranked around EGF 1-kyu, so he makes a good match for the other two students already here. I'm working really hard, but it might not be realistic to expect to catch up, especially with all of them also working hard.

Today is Yan Laoshi's birthday and we're going out for dinner, so there will be a bit less time for go problems tonight.

Knotwilg wrote:BTW, I disagree that there wouldn't be a structured approach to tsumego. For L&D, "surround, cut, reduce, vital point" is the proper approach, unless of course you "see" the solution.

The main reason is that
- by surrounding you get a favorable position in the game, even if you don't kill
- cutting is the most basic way to put chains in trouble
- reducing the eyespace reveals the vital points and it also reduces the depth of the reading
- finally vital points

I can't say whether there is a proper approach, I already heard so many approaches and all seem - in the end - hinge on personal taste.

For instance, I'm not a fan of a rule of thumb like "surround, cut, reduce, vital point" because why should I consider surrounding a living group? Check the status should come first, in my opinion.
If a group can locally be killed, there is the question whether my stones around are a sufficient surround already, which needs a lot of experience and careful planning.
If I'm behind and can only aim for the kill to gain the upper hand (even when it's unlikely that I succeed) then surrounding is not the right move - again.
If I can chase the opponent and build up something while attacking or run through his Moyo then maybe surrounding is also not the best play.
And lastly, a surround does not always lead to a favourable position. This stone can very well just end up on a Dame, too. Or turn out to be a wasted Ko-threat when played without the proper timing.

Cutting, a delicate matter.
I don't want to cut where my opponent can use the cutting stone to make shape.
I don't want to cut where my opponent can gain sufficient counter-play to capture or threaten to capture my cutting stone (reversing attacker and defender).
I don't want to cut the tail, when I could have killed the whole group.
I don't want to cut unimportant stones, that my opponent gladly sacrfices for the moment.
So much experience and reading involved...

In the end there are so many exceptions, each depending on how the board looks like. I always tell beginners, when in doubt, try to kill everything. They learn sooner or later (at last when they don't skip reading practice) whether to attack from the outside or the inside.

I pretty much agree with the last two points, but my phrasing would be "When you can't spot a vital point (or when it doesn't work yet), reduce the group's eyespace" to cover the cases where something like Hane on the first line is not correct.

Then again, I also agree with Bill Spight and Hushfield. Forming a theory is probably nice for teaching and computer Go but it really does not make grinding those problems any less neccessary. And as far as I know the big difference between western and eastern players is still the reading skill.
When I look back, I could theorise a good deal about the Mini-Chinese-Fuseki when I was like 5-kyu (thanks Battousai : D), had no practical impact at all.

Firstly, The heuristics are not for playing order but for thinking order. When in doubt, they become plating order.

I also agree with Bill, especially with the "why not?"

And there is a difference between theorizing and believing the micro Chinese malse any difference to a 5k (or 4d) game. I'm with you on the latter.

SoDesuNe wrote:When I look back, I could theorise a good deal about the Mini-Chinese-Fuseki when I was like 5-kyu (thanks Battousai : D), had no practical impact at all.

Hmm, posts 132 and 133, this thread

Hushfield wrote:We got actual homework this time around. We need to finish 210 tesuji problems for next class, which is next thursday.

Wow!

Until I bought the Segoe-Go Seigen Tesuji Dictionary I didn't have 210 tesuji problems.

And, OC, I had to solve the few problems I had while trudging barefoot through the snow to the go club.

EdLee wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:When I look back, I could theorise a good deal about the Mini-Chinese-Fuseki when I was like 5-kyu (thanks Battousai : D), had no practical impact at all.

Hmm, posts 132 and 133, this thread

Rules, or rules of thumb, are part of the reasons some (many?) are stuck at their levels. They may be OK for beginners, or when we are at certain "beginning stages" (which can happen repeatedly over time);
but eventually we have to ditch them, lest they become a hindrance.

I completely agree.

Bill Spight wrote:

Hushfield wrote:We got actual homework this time around. We need to finish 210 tesuji problems for next class, which is next thursday.

Wow!

Until I bought the Segoe-Go Seigen Tesuji Dictionary I didn't have 210 tesuji problems.

And, OC, I had to solve the few problems I had while trudging barefoot through the snow to the go club. ;)

A player in my Go-club recently started Shogi and so did I.
The first thing I did was browsing the internet to get to know the rules, the pieces and how they move. Then I started collecting 101 one-move tsume and solved them all in 5 days (with Anki, so I did repeat them at the same time), while also watching videos about opening principles and reading several articles about etiquette, the pro-system and so on.
The said player crushes me and another friend, who started a couple of months earlier, while doing nothing ^^

There's always a bigger fish ; )
(Seriously, his way of approaching such strategic board games is amazing!)

Bill Spight wrote:Until I bought the Segoe-Go Seigen Tesuji Dictionary I didn't have 210 tesuji problems.

The book we are using is 阶梯围棋综合棋力测试:手筋分册

Today I played two games. The first was with our new housemate and fellow western student Michael:



I also played a two stone handicap game (as white) with one of the newest kids to join the go school. It was an uneventful game in which he followed every move I made. I basically had sente from the opening until the end of endgame and won by 25,5 points. Afterwards I could not remember much from the game, especially as it was played rather fast.

Today I'll finish my tesuji homework, and work my way through an easy-intermediate chinese book with 1000 problems. After I'm done with it (should take around 7-10 days), I'll have solidified my basic life and death and tesuji, and be ready to take on more difficult problems. There's 4 books in the series, and I hope to work my way through the first 3 volumes (so 3000 problems) while I'm here. Then hopefully I'll have improved enough to take on the last 2 volumes of the Lee Changho life and death. As those were simply unsolvable for me when I left for China, they are a good benchmark to see if my reading has become a bit more accurate (and creative).

Hushfield wrote:Today I played two games. The first was with our new housemate and fellow western student Michael

Ah, cool, he's in China =D I know him! A lot of fun to both of you! : )

I don't like White's opening in the 2H game. The Keima-Joseki doesn't seem to work well with the top right approach and the Keima-dive into the corner (bottom left) gives Black the super (and in my opinion bigger) checking extension.

Interesting to see which books you use, I'm always interested in new problem books =)

Keep up the good work!

Quite a lot happened these past few days. On Saturday we celebrated Yan Laoshi's birthday at a local restaurant. We got up at 3 am on Monday morning to watch the world cup final live (and got one more hour of sleep before getting up again for school).

Here are the two games I played today against the kids at the school.

The first one is another example of the kids at the school making pretty sick overplays. I managed to attack them using the right direction, but still lack the technique to do so in a crisp fashion. The attacks are sloppy and leave a lot of aji.



The second game I again had a lot of chances to finish the game, but missed them. This time around it was not an attack while making territory. I absolutely had to kill to win, and in the end I turned one of my completely alive groups surroundinding it into a ko. I lost the ko and the game.



I feel like I've slacked off in doing problems quite a bit in recent days. The life and death problems I am doing are not going well, which doesn't really help. I'm leaving some of the life and death books with assorted problems for a while to work through a life and death dictionary to get more focused practice on some of the shapes that are causing me problems. I have faith in the method presented by the teacher though, and believe that eventually my reading will improve.

The tesuji problems, which are more about spotting and remembering the shape, are going much better.

Tomorrow we're going to a specialized weiqi bookshop to buy books. Oh, the excitement.

Yesterday we went to the go book store. It was actually an online shop set up in somebody's living room, which we got access to because Yan Laoshi knows the owner. We spent quite a bit of time there and I got a bunch of problem books. Most notably a series of 3 books that has a total of 3600 problems. It's divided into entry, mid and high level problems (the books use the sign for kyu, but both mid and high level are really dan material). For those that are interested:
围棋经典死活3600题（初级）
围棋经典死活3600题(中级)
围棋经典死活3600题(高级)

Note: there are 1200 problems in one book, the total series consists of 3600 problems.

In one of today's games, I got really stuck for what big point to play. Here are some of the options I considered. The answer can be found in the game review.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W Black to play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . . . . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . b . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X X X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game below there was finally an instance of reading a bit ahead.



In the second game I played a terrible opening, and had absolutely no territory. I was ready to resign when Shong Feng overplayed slightly. In this game, I absolutely had to kill, and it became a fun fighting game.



Because all four of us wanted to spend some more time at the book store we went back to get some more problems and game records. We took a cab, which turned out to be really cheap in China. Think 12 CNY for the ride there.
After some more browsing and purchasing, we thought it was about time to take a taxi back and get started on those problems. How hard could it be to hail a cab, right? Right? Wrong. We came up with several theories (cab drivers dislike my beard, cab drivers don't want 4 guys in their car, cab drivers disliked my room mate's Chinese accent, cab drivers are basically trolling there would-be customers, cab drivers are all minions of Beelzebub and get paid not for the miles they drive their customers, but how insane they drive their customers), and after 40 minutes of standing in the rain with 2 umbrella's (made in China, not very waterproof) for four thoroughly soaked people, we decided to just walk home.

(* when we got home, Yan Laoshi explained that around 16:00 most cab drivers change shifts, and they have to drive back to their satanic headquarters to have the new drivers take over.)

Hi Hushfield

Two obvious corrections to your latest post:
1) in the problem diagram, the upper right is missing a white stone
2) in game 2, you are white

As a remark, one can indeed see in game 1 that your reading has improved. To pull off such a plan, even if the order was wrong, the calculations are not trivial (for our level).

Thanks for the feedback, I corrected the mistakes in the previous post.

There is an interesting question at the end of your second game. Instead of 122 in the game what if White pushes in and cuts at 3 below? If Black sacrifices the corner are you still in the game?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 2 . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X 1 X X O O X X O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O O X X O X X . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X O O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X X O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O X X O O O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O X X O O . X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O . X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . X . . O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . X X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . X . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Because if Black plays to keep the corner, White can connect the stones on the right. For example...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 0 . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O X 1 2 9 7 4 5 O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X O X X O O X X O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O O X X O X X . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . O X O O O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . X X X O X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X X . X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O X X O O O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . . O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O X X O O . X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X O O X . O . X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . X . . X . . . X . . O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . X X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . X . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A little earlier, notice the effect of your 96. You force Black to make an eye. Consider what happens without the exchange of 96 for 97. After 4 below White retains the ability to eliminate Blacks eye with 5 through 7 but not necessarily right now. Black can make an eye in gote but that means he needs to make the second eye in sente, unlike in the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X X O . X . O . X . X X . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O O X . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . 1 X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . 7 X 2 4 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X 5 6 X X X X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X O X X O O O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . O O O . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . O . X O O . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X X . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . X . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . X . O X X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

[edited to add coordinates]