BTW, Boidhre, while reading Herman’s thread “Which special situations have you encountered in your games?” I just learnt that the game situation we encountered (i.e. should have encountered) at the end of our (I think) first game on DGS Kaya is called “Golden Chicken Standing on One Leg” … just wanted to tell you, in case you didn’t know the name. I think it’s a beautiful name for such a thing, and I guess after that game I’ll forever remember this shape
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You’re certainly right, Boidhre, it was Kaya, not DGS!
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Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:12 am
by Boidhre
Bonobo wrote:BTW, Boidhre, while reading Herman’s thread “Which special situations have you encountered in your games?” I just learnt that the game situation we encountered (i.e. should have encountered) at the end of our (I think) first game on DGS is called “Golden Chicken Standing on One Leg” … just wanted to tell you, in case you didn’t know the name. I think it’s a beautiful name for such a thing, and I guess after that game I’ll forever remember this shape
Nah that was our first Kaya game I think. Yes, I'm still kicking myself for not seeing it in the game.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:22 am
by Bonobo
Boidhre wrote:Nah that was our first Kaya game I think. Yes, I'm still kicking myself for not seeing it in the game.
Oh, sheesh, thanks, corrected. And stop kicking yerself, buddy, methinks this was a thorough lesson for both of us
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:21 pm
by Boidhre
A horrible game for me, made me feel very weak. I included the joseki I think I should have played. I'd never seen either this pincer or fuseki from white before, so eh, was a bit thrown by the whole thing. I think flattening white's moyo with an approach from the top on the top left stone would have been superior to the large keima approach that I did. Anyway, here's the game: :/
I really need to get out of that jump out reflex to a pincer.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 5:47 pm
by skydyr
Boidhre wrote:A horrible game for me, made me feel very weak. I included the joseki I think I should have played. I'd never seen either this pincer or fuseki from white before, so eh, was a bit thrown by the whole thing. I think flattening white's moyo with an approach from the top on the top left stone would have been superior to the large keima approach that I did. Anyway, here's the game: :/
I really need to get out of that jump out reflex to a pincer.
The key to playing pincers by jumping out is to understand that the reason you jump out is so that you can attack one of the pincering sides against the wall of stones you create. Sometimes you press down, sometimes you counter-pincer, sometimes you do something else. In this case, with the elephant-jump/peep white leaves a weakness behind in between the two stones that you might exploit, so you can either try playing there directly or counter-pincering, knowing that white has to spend a move to protect that.
Because of the 5-4 stone, it may be better to attach under the original 3-4 stone and make a base instead, but you still want to attack white back in some way using your stones.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:50 pm
by Bill Spight
A textbook case.
(;SZ[19]FF[4]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]ST[2]CA[ISO8859-1]GM[1]WR[4k]KM[6.5]GN[GoGoDW2011'Tibul-Boidhre]RE[W+Resignation]RU[Japanese]PM[0]PW[Tibul]PB[Boidhre]FG[775:]BR[11k]OT[byoyomi 5x30] ;BL[1496.8]B[pd]C[Tibul\[4k\]\: Good game ^^ Boidhre\[11k\]\: have a nice game \:) ] ;W[do]WL[1494.4] ;BL[1487.4]B[qp] ;W[dc]WL[1492.1] ;BL[1482.3]B[oq] ;W[pj]WL[1487.8] ;BL[1470.8]B[pl]C[*** No rush.] ;W[qf]WL[1472.8] ;BL[1417.6]B[nc] ;W[rd]WL[1460.2] ;BL[1414.9]B[qc] ;W[of]WL[1456.0] ;BL[1406.9]B[cf]C[*** Fine.] ;W[di]WL[1435.9]C[*** Not a strong pincer.] ( ;BL[1374.4]B[ef]C[*** Jowa says, Don't run. See variations, as well as comments on your variation.] ;W[fd]WL[1426.3]C[*** Now what?] ( ;BL[1334.1]B[cc]C[*** See variations.] ;W[de]WL[1405.8] ( ;BL[1328.5]B[df] ;W[cd]WL[1389.6] ( ;BL[1304.9]B[gf]C[*** See variation.] ;W[fg]WL[1377.9] ( ;BL[1286.1]B[ff]C[Boidhre\[11k\]\: I'm *this* close to resigning already \:P
*** See variation. ] ;W[he]WL[1336.2]C[Tibul\[4k\]\: Don't worry \:D ] ( ;BL[1261.7]B[hg]C[*** Jowa says, Don't run. See variation.] ;W[gi]WL[1312.2] ( ;BL[1179.9]B[hi]C[*** Interesting idea, but what do you mean to accomplish? White has a secure group on the right and one on top. See variation.] ;W[hj]WL[1296.0] ;BL[1165.1]B[ii] ;W[gj]WL[1265.2]C[Boidhre\[11k\]\: does it show that I've never seen that pincer before? \:D ] ;BL[1158.3]B[jg]C[jayy\[5k\]\: /govar 0-14 ccddcddecbdfcgdg variation
*** Safe! But a single purpose play. ] ;W[je]WL[1233.7]C[Tibul\[4k\]\: Pincers always fun to answer ^^ Tibul\[4k\]\: Worked well with my bottom stone I thought Boidhre\[11k\]\: yeah very nicely Boidhre\[11k\]\: I should have played F16 ] ( ;BL[1099.6]B[ij]C[*** See variation.] ;W[ik]WL[1201.5] ;BL[1077.7]B[jk]C[jayy\[5k\]\: /govar 0-14 cccdddbccbdeedcebbgdfedfgeidgc or Tibul\[4k\]\: Yes or E16 for outer influence ] ;W[il]WL[1171.8] ( ;BL[1064.5]B[jl]C[*** Pushing from behind. See variation.] ;W[jp]WL[1138.7]C[*** Ouch! End of comments.] ;BL[1041.7]B[dq] ;W[fp]WL[1109.2] ;BL[1030.7]B[cp] ;W[co]WL[1106.5] ;BL[1010.8]B[fr]C[Boidhre\[11k\]\: this game is effectively over ] ;W[jm]WL[1052.4] ;BL[972.1]B[ll] ;W[kc]WL[1013.6]C[Boidhre\[11k\]\: mind if I play on for a little practice? \:) Boidhre\[11k\]\: or do you want to go to bed \:D Tibul\[4k\]\: Yeah keep going ^^ I don't mind ] ;BL[889.0]B[rc] ;W[kj]WL[887.0] ;BL[860.2]B[jj] ;W[km]WL[871.1] ;BL[856.9]B[lk] ;W[nl]WL[865.8]C[Boidhre\[11k\]\: eh, I've been beaten up enough, nice game \:) ] ) ( ;B[ip]C[*** Kind of urgent, now.] )
) ( ;B[jk]C[*** Better, for two reasons. First it threatens to make a framework on the bottom side. Second, see continuation.] ;W[ij] ;B[jj] ;W[ji] ;B[ki] ;W[jh] ;B[kh] ;W[ih] ;B[hh]C[*** Bingo!] )
( ;B[ip]C[*** Even better, eh?] )
) ( ;B[bi]C[*** Big for both sides.] )
) ( ;B[bd] ;W[bc] ;B[ce] ;W[cb] ;B[bi] )
) ( ;B[ee] ( ;W[ff] ;B[fe] ;W[ge] ;B[gd] ;W[he] ;B[ed] ;W[fc] ;B[ec] ;W[gb] ;B[eb] ) ( ;W[ed] ;B[ge]C[*** Now White is peeping at a bamboo joint.] ;W[hc] ;B[bd] ;W[bc] ;B[ce] ;W[cb] ;B[bi] )
)
) ( ;B[bd] ;W[bc] ;B[be]C[*** See threat if White passes.] ;W[tt] ;B[cb] ;W[bb] ;B[db] ( ;W[ec] ;B[ba] ;W[ab] ;B[ad] ;W[eb] ;B[ce] ;W[dd] ;B[ac] ) ( ;W[eb] ;B[ec] ;W[ed] ;B[dd] )
)
) ( ;B[ce] ;W[df] ;B[dd] ;W[ed] ;B[cd] ;W[dg] ;B[db]C[*** The Black orphan is painful, but the White position is awkward.] )
) ( ;B[gf]C[*** Black is at least out, and it is not easy to attack this group.] )
( ;B[dl]C[*** Banzai!] )
) ( ;B[dd]C[*** It is a little hard to believe that this is joseki. ] ;W[ed] ;B[cc] ;W[cb] ;B[cd] ;W[eb] ;B[ee]C[*** Black is thick, of course. However, the White pincer stone is too far away to attack easily.] ;W[fd] ;B[bh]C[*** This play is just pathetic.] )
( ;B[cc] ;W[cd] ;B[dd] ;W[bc] ;B[cb] ;W[de] ;B[ed] ;W[ce] ;B[bb] ;W[gd] ;B[ee] ;W[df] ;B[ef] ;W[dg]C[*** This is joseki. However, the White position in the top left works well with the White stone in the bottom left. Better for Black to tenuki.] )
( ;B[cq] ;W[cp] ;B[dq] ;W[ep] ;B[fr]C[*** This may seem small, but it leaves room for Black to invade the left side.] )
( ;B[hc]C[*** Counter pincer.] ;W[de] ;B[bd]C[*** Black should be able to make do here.] )
)
Main focus:
Jowa says, Don't run.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:13 pm
by Boidhre
Jowa says don't run was screaming in my head when I jumped out, that's why I was referring to the reflex. I should have tenuki'd not having a good local response in mind. An absolute disaster of a game, and has me feeling very pessimistic about go afterwards but valuable as a lesson about weak groups and linear thinking.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:57 pm
by Boidhre
I've been struggling tonight, over my horrible misread in that turn based game I posted in study analysis and my decimation at the hands of a 4k, with feelings of depression, anxiety and such and such (note: I'm not saying that I became depressed!). Now, most of this is due to the medication change making my mood very "wobbly" making what would normally make anyone feel a bit glum into a thought cycle that was more damaging (in CBT terms, I went from "I made some mistakes tonight" to catastrophising it into "I'm an utter failure at go." My psychologist set me a task for the month. Opposite action, when I feel disinclined to do something for irrational reasons I'm to make myself do it to try and show those reasons to be wrong. So tonight, instead of just dwelling on being low, I did some problems instead that weren't trivial for me to solve (10-5k tesuji problems). Why does go effect me so seriously? Well, honestly, anything can set me off. Screw up anything and if I'm in the wrong frame of mind it rapidly turns into a thought cycle that is damaging.
So the key for me is:
First, accept that it's fine to feel bad. You screwed up something, it's natural to feel a bit crap afterwards. Allow yourself to feel bad for a while, don't wallow in it but just feel it for a bit. Second, find ways to show myself that I'm not an utter failure at whatever I failed at. Amass evidence against the idea that I'm an utter failure. Third, talk about it. I find it helps to be open about these kinds of things. A burden shared is a burden halved and all that.
So I have a method to deal with the downs, I hope someone else can read this post and glean something useful out of it for themselves.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 11:16 am
by Boidhre
Position from a game, where would you respond? (Position has been played out already)
I can only find 5 games with this corner position on GoGoD after the position had played out. I played Q14 which seemed to be the most common response. I'm just curious about why this is played so little and so is my opponent (a friend).
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:51 pm
by topazg
Because White can be split I think - it's a really thin shape to make really. It's a very common joseki with a low approach to a 3-4, but not a common one with the 4-4
Had spent the day studying invasion and reduction so lacked my usual cautiousness to my demise.
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:34 pm
by Boidhre
Oh and in happy news my go club will be going twice a week come the college term! I'm very happy about this and about the prospect of new players joining us!
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:36 pm
by Bill Spight
I am impressed with your last game against grooviest. Sure, you were behind after 100 moves, but rather less than one would expect, given the rank difference.
Keep it up!
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:08 pm
by mitsun
In the lower right corner up to move 15, something has gone wrong for B. Do you see the problem? Can you figure out how to get a better result? When something like this happens to me, I know it is time to crack open the joseki book ....
$$ $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . X . | $$ . . . O , X X . | $$ . X . . O O X O | $$ . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------
This is one common continuation, when B wants to make a quick solid base. Note that if W plays hane (a), B can counter-hane (b), perserving his eye space.
This is another common continuation, when B wants to develop faster along the side. In this shape, if W plays hane at (a), and B decides to respond locally (he could also tenuki), B must play the solid connection at (b) to defend his position with a single move.
$$ $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 7 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . b . | $$ . . . O , X X . | $$ . X . . O O X a | $$ . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------
[go]$$ $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 7 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . b . | $$ . . . O , X X . | $$ . X . . O O X a | $$ . . . . . . O . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------[/go]
In the game, B got the sequence wrong and ended up playing two defensive moves where only one was necessary. In effect, he let W get the nice move (a) in exchange for the nearly useless move (b).
Re: A beginner's journal of little interest
Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:14 pm
by Boidhre
I checked Kogo's immediately after the game (only resource I have at the moment, should I get something better? I've been considering it) and saw that I should have played the following:
When I looked at the result from the game I saw that I gave white a free move to force me into bad shape where I ended up playing the move I should have played anyway. Now W at a is no longer forcing and I think this is a much improved position for Black.
is played so little and so is my opponent (a friend).