Page 40 of 51

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:18 am
by shapenaji
Approved

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:22 pm
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O B |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Any other move than T13 here will lead to W P15. The following sequence (up to :b5: taking the ko) looks forced to me, but what do I know?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 131 W64 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O 1 |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X 2 |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X 3 |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:13 pm
by Violence
Daniel's trigger resolves, he approves, I approve.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:53 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Trigger:
If Terr plays T9, I approve

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:30 pm
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 132 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X W |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:39 pm
by shapenaji
Triggered, I also approve... let the ko begin!

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:03 am
by Gresil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Move 133 W65 B57
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O C |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:13 am
by daniel_the_smith
Approved, naturally...

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:48 am
by Violence
Approved.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:45 am
by Chew Terr
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X . . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O 3 . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Pardon the trigger, but in a ko, some things are obvious.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B58
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . b . O X e . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X a . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . c . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O d . . . . . . . . . O O X X C |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X B |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, we can't win this ko fight. This basically makes the whole game look... iffy. We can either use or threats to try to live on top (a, b, or e), or we can sacrifice all of the top+right, consider that we have thickness in the whole rest of the board, and try to put it to work ASAP. I think I'm going to go with 'd', on the latter plan. 'd' accomplishes similar things to 'c', threatening to kill the big group above and setting adrift the stones below. If white captures the ko (seems like they will), I intend to push and cut. I'll also look at just atari-ing after the ko capture, though.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:55 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Move approved. Must think about trigger.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 9:27 am
by daniel_the_smith
I'm fine with 135. I think we all are... >.<

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:17 am
by shapenaji
Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?
Chew's move at 136 is a very big threat, but if we play it, we have no choice but to kill, better to live the top. It threatens the life of the black top group.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:51 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
shapenaji wrote:Wait, Joaz, did you approve 136?


No. I didn't disapprove either.

Hmmm...the rules are not clear here. Are we waiting on me or the white team?
I gotta see if there is something better for a ko threat. N17 or G7 may be better.

Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:33 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
I'm assuming that all white players will want to take the ko.

We can make a ko threat to save our group:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . 4 . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X 6 O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X 5 O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X C C C C C X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X C 3 X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X C C C |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X C 1 |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 2 O 1 5 4 6 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 7 3 O . O X 8 . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and - I didn't see this earlier - it may end in sente!

If they tenuki:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . O O X X O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . X X O . O X O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 2 3 . X O . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 4 X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It is a flower-viewing ko for us. I haven't read all variations, but we can live, and as best I can tell we live with sente.

So..


I don't approve of the trigger.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm134 Move 134 W65 B60
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X 3 . O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O X . O O X X . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X O X . O O . X O O O |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X O O O O O X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X O . X |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X O O O |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X O 2 |
$$ | . O O O C . . . . . . . . . O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]