The mistakes I make

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon May 09, 2016 3:59 pm

Hi mongus,

mongus wrote:Move 50 is where the board in question occurred where I should have covered that gap.

No; the problem is earlier:
You should've replied to :b39:

and immediately fixed your shape right there with :w40:

.

Please see again toothpaste and related pages.

At :b41:

B could've atari'd at G5, then connect at G6 --
your local shape is bad.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon May 09, 2016 5:27 pm

Hi mongus,

:w28:

Doesn't fix your local shape:
it's still wide and B can jump in.
Could consider Q12.

:w30:

A shoulder hit (no contact of liberties, yet).
I'd consider C5: cash + attack.

:w32:

Did you read the hane F7.

:w36:

Feels like pushing from behind (B could extend out, F5, etc.);
Could consider C4 or C5.

:w40:

G6 only move.

Please see again toothpaste and related pages.

:w42:

( Some strange habit...) Connect directly at C4

:w52:

Mis-click, OK.

P6.

Both B and W were oblivious to the basic (broken) shapes at G6 and P6.
Please see again toothpaste and related pages.

:w70:

Basically a Pass.

:w72:

Why ? Another pass. Your one stone here is very small, not important.
Look at the whole board, see the bigger picture.
Don't reply to gote moves like :b71:

.

Pass. You've passed 3 times in a row here.

mongus · Post by **mongus** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:14 am

Hi EdLee,

Huge amount of thanks for your feedback! I have some questions.

EdLee wrote: Did you read the hane F7.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean playing at :ex:

would have been a better move?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ . O 1 . $$ X X M . $$ . . . .[/go]

EdLee wrote: G6 only move.

Please see again toothpaste and related pages.

This toothpaste squeezing problem of mine is a very hard habit to get out of. I struggle to appreciate that I am squeezing until it is too late and the toothpaste has spilled out. Is the fundamental problem here that I am focusing too much on trying to surround my opponent and completely ignoring the strength of my own stones - attacking without any consideration for defense?

EdLee wrote: ( Some strange habit...) Connect directly at C4

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . $$ | . . O X X . . $$ | . W . O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ +--------------[/go]

I often play moves like this as it helps to protect the cut and it also helps to prevent my opponent from pushing underneath my stones. Why is this a bad habit?

EdLee wrote: Basically a Pass.

Why ? Another pass. Your one stone here is very small, not important.
Look at the whole board, see the bigger picture.
Don't reply to gote moves like .

Pass. You've passed 3 times in a row here.

Are these moves essentially useless because I am messing around on the edges whilst my opponent is taking control of the huge area in the centre of the board?

Many thanks.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:26 am

Hi mongus,

You're welcome.

mongus wrote:Do you mean playing at would have been a better move?
$$W
$$ . O 1 .
$$ X X M .
$$ . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ . O 1 . $$ X X M . $$ . . . .[/go]

No, I didn't say that.
What I meant is did you consider, and therefore read,
W hane there instead of your extend.
If the hane works for W, of course you want it.
Only when it doesn't work do you "pull back".

So if you never consider the hane (here and in future games),
then you could be missing out.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:30 am

mongus wrote:This toothpaste squeezing problem of mine is a very hard habit to get out of. I struggle to appreciate that I am squeezing until it is too late and the toothpaste has spilled out. Is the fundamental problem here that I am focusing too much on trying to surround my opponent and completely ignoring the strength of my own stones - attacking without any consideration for defense?

Hi mongus,

A few things to ponder:

- It can be a difficult problem to fix.
( Probably varies from person to person.
In general, easier for very young children than adults.

I know people who've been playing for over 30, 40 years
and still don't understand these shapes. :-|

)

- Probably there are multiple reasons.

- Two aspects to start to 'understand' these shapes:
* Recognition;
* Evaluation.

As you have more of your games reviewed,
hopefully the reviews will help you see (recognize)
these shapes; then, you learn to evaluate when
they are good, neutral, or bad for you. The process takes time.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 2:43 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . $$ | . . O X X . . $$ | . W . O O . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ +--------------[/go]

mongus wrote:I often play moves like this as it helps to protect the cut and it also helps to prevent my opponent from pushing underneath my stones. Why is this a bad habit?

Hi mongus,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . X . . . . $$ | . b O X X . . $$ | . c a O O . . $$ | . . d . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ +--------------[/go]

For this local shape, here are at least four candidate replies:
(a) solid connect;
(b) drop;
(c) 2nd line tiger's mouth;
(d) 3rd line tiger's mouth.

First question for you: when you "often" encounter this local shape,
or similar situations, do you first see all these possible replies,
evaluate the pros and cons for each, then pick what you think the best move ?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:05 am

Hi mongus,

Here's one property:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:09 am

Hi mongus,

Property:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:13 am

Hi mongus,

Property:

mongus · Post by **mongus** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:24 am

EdLee wrote:Hi mongus,

You're welcome.
mongus wrote:Do you mean playing at would have been a better move?
$$W
$$ . O 1 .
$$ X X M .
$$ . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ . O 1 . $$ X X M . $$ . . . .[/go]
No, I didn't say that.
What I meant is did you consider, and therefore read,
W hane there instead of your extend.
If the hane works for W, of course you want it.
Only when it doesn't work do you "pull back".
So if you never consider the hane (here and in future games),
then you could be missing out.

I am always wary of the hane as it is easily cuttable.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ . . 4 . $$ . O 2 3 $$ X X 1 . $$ . . . .[/go]

In this case I started off with one stone vs two Black stones, so I didn't think I was in a strong enough position to be able to afford the cut.

On reflection, maybe I could have played this, which could have been better :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ . . 3 . $$ . O 2 4 $$ X X 1 5 $$ . . . .[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:25 am

Hi mongus,

Property:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:31 am

mongus wrote:
$$W
$$ ? ? ? ? ?
$$ . . 4 . ?
$$ . O 2 3 ?
$$ X X 1 . ?
$$ . . . . ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ ? ? ? ? ? $$ . . 4 . ? $$ . O 2 3 ? $$ X X 1 . ? $$ . . . . ?[/go]

$$W
$$ ? ? ? ? ?
$$ . . 3 . ?
$$ . O 2 4 ?
$$ X X 1 5 ?
$$ . . . . ?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W $$ ? ? ? ? ? $$ . . 3 . ? $$ . O 2 4 ? $$ X X 1 5 ? $$ . . . . ?[/go]

Hi mongus,

A (standard/common) question for your level (standard/common behavior):
in both of your sample continuations,
why did you atari the cutting stone :b2:

?!

mongus · Post by **mongus** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:37 am

EdLee wrote:
From my anecdotal evidence, beginners, esp. adult beginners,
would often play your (c) or occasionally (d),
once they learned about the tiger's mouth;
or, once they saw others (beginners) play it.
It's almost as if they go out of the way to avoid the solid connect (a).
I guess this could be your situation ?

If true, then it's already suspect.

Guilty as charged! I have this feeling that a solid connect is a waste of space because it is just working to connect and not doing much to extend influence or create eye space. I see what you are saying about it opening me up to more threats from my opponent. I guess I need to consider at the time whether it is worth it based on the circumstances.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:40 am

Hi mongus,

Property:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue May 10, 2016 3:43 am

mongus wrote:I have this feeling that a solid connect is a waste of space because it is just working to connect and not doing much to extend influence or create eye space.

Hi mongus,

As we improve, our understandings can change; sometimes, they even flip flop.

A solid connect is good... when it's good.
A solid connect is bad... when it's bad.
Ditto for other connects. :mrgreen:

Life In 19x19

The mistakes I make

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