Life In 19x19

Just want to say a big thanks lightvector for getting opencl support in katago.

I was previously using leelazero run on a laptop (igpu) and it was OK to play with, using early 6 block networks (around 1dan strength).


Katago (6block) seems to play the endgame a bit better which is great.

leelazero (6block) would sometimes play the endgame a bit slack if the game was close, and then self implode.

like leelazero couldn't judge the score good enough in a close (+/-5 point) endgame.


I like the style of play too, it really likes to fight and complicate the game, often leaving groups unsettled.

leelazero 6 block likes to fight too, but katago 6 block even more so.


The adjustable komi is great too, so I can play 0.5 (or -6.5) komi games with the 6 block networks.


Something I liked about leelazero was that pangafu trained a 10 block leelazero master version using 80-90% human (pro?) games.

I wonder if something like that would be possible with katago 6 or 10 blocks?

I guess one of the holy grails of go AI is to be able to select different playing styles, such as takemiya sensei, cho chikun, go seigen, etc.

having parameters for how much to favour: influence, fighting, honte, etc...


good luck with the future research!

who played on other boards? How does KataGo play 13x13? or other sizes?
on 19x19 plays amazingly!

@ez4u - Yep, Aram pretty much has all the right ideas. The search usually benefits greatly from knowing the results of earlier visits when spending later visits and being able to explore deeply, and threading gets in the way of that.

@birdinhand - Thanks! More opening variety is definitely something I want to look into in the future. Done right, it may help learning in self-play as well.

@And - Yes, KataGo plays on other sizes. All square sizes from 9x9 through 19x19 were part of training. So, try a 12x12 game if you like. On 9x9 it does not match up to specially trained 9x9 bots (which can reach near-optimal) but overall should be extremely strong on all sizes in that range.

@lightvector, thank! it’s very good that can play KataGo on different boards, from 2x2 to 19x19! and even on rectangular ones! (only sabaki does not support rectangular). perhaps this is the only program with such features! in the latest release, the size limit is 19x19 for objective reasons? sometimes it's interesting to play on larger boards. Can you make support up to 37x37 or 52x52?

lightvector wrote:On 9x9 it does not match up to specially trained 9x9 bots (which can reach near-optimal) but overall should be extremely strong on all sizes in that range.

This isn't true, it has 40%+ winrate vs. specially trained 9x9 bots that have bigger networks (so likely equal strength at time parity) and I've spent many days trying to train one that beats it. Even the strongest networks are nowhere near optimal without several million playouts, and even then, sometimes can't read out the result if it depends on a ko fight at the end. Which most 9x9 games end up in anyway, since the engines can avoid a clear loss quite easily.

In other words, at time parity there's no clear better bot on 9x9

iopq, Is it possible that there is a bot that you have not tried, and it plays better?
or other results may be with other settings (visits or others)?
I wonder if you used opencl or cuda, and what settings, what videocard?

And wrote:iopq, Is it possible that there is a bot that you have not tried, and it plays better?
or other results may be with other settings (visits or others)?
I wonder if you used opencl or cuda, and what settings, what videocard?

The creator of the bot said he gave up on it, and is currently making a 9x9 KataGo run himself. His current bot is 15b and can beat KataGo on equal visits ~40% of the time, so I assume it's stronger on time parity.

His bot is the 171st network of his run, 30 blocks. I only tested the 168th or something like that. Similar strength to KataGo (stronger, but slower) but I didn't do a long test.

who knows how to connect KataGo to Lizzie?

update your config and change the engine to something like this:

"engine-command": "./KataGo/main.exe gtp -model ./KataGo/model.txt -config ./KataGo/configs/gtp_example.cfg -override-version 0.17",

cyndane, thanks for the answer! It works for me: "engine-command": "./katago gtp -model model.txt -config gtp_example.cfg",.
and need to change "network-file": "model.txt",.
what gives "-override-version 0.17"?

Rectangular board support has been merged into Lizzie https://github.com/leela-zero/leela-zer ... -513329967
this can be done?

You need to "compile" yourself the latest version of lizzie to get the latest features.

Lizzie is constantly improving, but they don't make a new public release of compiled version for each new addition (actually, the latest release was the 0.6 november last year, and since then there was 190 commits (= change) to the code).

Tryss, thanks, and the compiled version can be found somewhere?

And, your question seems already directly answered by Tryss's previous post:

Tryss wrote:You need to "compile" yourself the latest version of Lizzie to get the latest features.

If you don't want to do that, I guess you're probably limited to either asking nicely in the Lizzie Github for someone else to do it for you, or to wait for whenever they do make a new official release.

lightvector, thanks, I was counting on the fact that someone had already compiled it and posted it on a file hosting service.

how to run analysis mode in KataGo?

Put the new lizzie.jar into your Lizzie folder

this version has better KataGo support

https://mega.nz/#!5d4THYBY!f0ReTYpjtswi ... KF62SuOTb8