Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . 1 . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by dfan »

Does this work?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc If White tries to cut
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 5 6 O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O 2 1 O 4 . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 3 O X X . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by daniel_the_smith »

OK, that's funny. Shaddy actually played this before C14, and both of us forgot. Sorry for the confusion!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 --the real, actual position after W20
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . 1 . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


dfan: if that happened, I think white will draw back, and then did black gain anything? I'm not sure.
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by gaius »

Wow, THAT peep is aji keshi if I ever did see any!
My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.

When in doubt, play the most aggressive move
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by dfan »

daniel_the_smith wrote:dfan: if that happened, I think white will draw back, and then did black gain anything? I'm not sure.

It seemed like a gain to my kyu brain.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , 3 O 2 . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 1 . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The :b1: - :w2: exchange feels good to me; for one thing, White's doesn't get to perform that sort of springing-off-the-wall double-keima maneuver of playing at a (although maybe the move is still playable). Corrections welcome!
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Yeah, I'm not sure, it wasn't a trick question :)

Anyway, here's what I played:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by hyperpape »

Forced right? Otherwise Black turns.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Shaddy »

Yes.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


You all already saw black's move so I'll post two...
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Chew Terr
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Chew Terr »

Black pushes again, white jumps?
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Black 21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yup. White needed to push twice before because if you push once and jump, the cut works.
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daniel_the_smith
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Black 27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Sano »

Despite being only a double digit kyu I'll at least try to understand the moves and make a very rough guess at what will happen next. I hope I don't say something stupid:

The move I would probably make without thinking is G14, but I understand it's a very bad move for white because of this, right?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 4 3 1 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X 7 5 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So maybe this would be good for white? Black's three top left stones look dead to me...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X . . O . X . O . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O 6 4 O . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 2 . 1 . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X 5 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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Also, is this situation urgent or can white tenuki without much loss?
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Shaddy
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Shaddy »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Black 27
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g14 is correct. As to how urgent it is... maybe it's not as urgent as i'd thought it. D10 is probably as good if not better for white.
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Chew Terr
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Re: Dankovitch I: Shaddy vs. dts

Post by Chew Terr »

Does black try to separate with G15?
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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