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98. Araban vs. Magicwand

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=3164

Page 5 of 21

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:58 pm
by Aphelion
Jesus christ lighten up.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:23 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

something happened? 86th move???
took some time try to decide what i should play after this move.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:34 am
by Magicwand
for obs:
i guess i have to take this path..
this sucks! this is very risky game for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O W 1 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


if he plays as below..i think i will have easier time.
but from what he has shown me sofar i dont think he will play as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O W 2 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X 1 3 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


it is still anybody's game but i dont like the flow.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:35 am
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X 1 , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lot of people make the mistake of playing moves like what I just played instantly. "Oh, but that move is just sooOoO00o0ocos(pi/2)Ooo0o obvious!!" No! It's so important to think about every move you make, even when it seems the right move is obvious, because sometimes the obvious move isn't always the right one.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:47 am
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i will read more after he plays his move..

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:36 am
by Magicwand
i will try to guess what he will play next:
i am thinking he might play that move but it gives me passive feeling. trying to get good shape..but it seems like an eye of illusion. imo it is weak, passive, tasteless, one diminsional, kyuish move. nah~~ i dont think he is that weak to consider that move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . 8 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X 5 X . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i tried to comeup with some other logical moves ..but there are toomany choices and variations.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:40 am
by Bill Spight
The plot thickens. :)

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:04 pm
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I've been awake for about 36 hours now, cramming for an exam in 3 hours (two exams today; spent way too much time studying for my stochastic calculus exam, Itôôôôôôôôôôôôôôô!!!) Anyways, playing a move is probably not the best thing to do in my current state but I did not make haste and spent a good time thinking about where to play next.

White's move is ambitious. If he were to play against weaker players in handi games, this sort of move would probably scare them. Having played about 200 games on Tygem, I've gotten used to this kind of playing style so it's all good. Even though earlier I brought up how I didn't want to let White play this kind of move since it was probably what he wanted, this scenario is a bit different as I've gotten a pretty hefty profit at the bottom. Let's not forget that Go is a game of exchange.

Anyways, why do I feel the move I played is best?

  1. It travels up, a direction where White isn't as strong as he is below.
  2. It's good shape.
  3. It doesn't scurry to try and make life. I am not in that much danger, and I think White knows that as well; he just wants to seal me in and gain as much profit from the attack as possible. If I was really in trouble, I would probably play something like D11 instead of E11, strengthening myself while strengthening White. But of course I'd much rather strengthen myself without strengthening White.
  4. It eyes the aji around the C12 area.
  5. It will make it easier for me in the future to move out into the center.

So yeah, that's my thought process. Now I better get back to studying. Image

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:46 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


he played exactly what i would have play if i was capped.
i feel like playing against myself. :D

i feel like i am in a quicksand and my foot is sinking deeper and deeper..
i have considered many other moves but...this is only way i can maintain my flow...

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:25 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
My prediction:

It seems like MW is trying to provoke Araban into starting another attackable group. Then white might be able to build strength while attacking one group, then turn on the other.
If I were black, I'd just tenuki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 4 . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:59 pm
by Solomon
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . X X , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't intend to cause a commotion here, it's a simple probe...neeoow. I am outnumbered at the top, so I need to treat the situation with care.

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:20 pm
by Kirby
I have played Araban only once, and it was for the L19 tournament (he won against me). The thing that strikes me about his playing style is that all of his moves seem normal to me - no real surprises. Many of the moves he plays are moves that I feel like I would have played... But he still comes out ahead.

I hope that I can have this kind of strength someday - the strength to be ahead when you are simply playing normal moves.


...Or, the strength to realize the difference between his moves and my own... ;)

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:22 pm
by jts
What does "neeow" mean?

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:24 pm
by Kirby
jts wrote:
What does "neeow" mean?


When I read it, I assumed it was a cat sound. A google search (urban dictionary) provides the following possibilities:

Neow
1. TO ACT IMMEDIATELY UPON DEMAND;
2. AN IMPERATIVE COMMAND;
3. TO BE COMPLETED WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF HESITATION;
4. A DEMAND THAT IS DELIVERED IN A HIGH PITCH, LOUD, DEMANDING VOICE;
5. SIMILAR TO THAT OF A CAT'S "MEOW" (sometimes, especially when combined with alcohol, repeated multiple times with increasing speed & volume)
Ex.) 1. Go get me a vodka and water NEOW! 2. Come to the bar NEOW!
3. Go get me late night food NEOW!
4. Take me home neow, neow, NEOW, NEEEEEEOWWWWW!

Re: 98. Araban vs. Magicwand

Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:42 pm
by Perception
@Kirby
There's a good quote from Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go "Go is the kind of game where you're an expert if you can just keep making ordinary moves." The Kageyama continues, "You need not play any especially brilliant moves at all. Amateurs' moves, however, are frequently far from ordinary; in fact, I see them making the most nonsensical moves imaginable, one after another."

I found this to align quite well with what you said about Araban's play, although a pro would probably find many odd moves in his games as well as our own games.

Edited: For spelling errors
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