#137 Banaan vs Chewtoy

[EdLee]

Hmm... short game.

I'll never play move 12 again ^__^

I think he'll cut with Q13, but I'm prepared for that

Banaan, what was your prepared plan if B pushed and cut:

$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

[dabird]

Thanks for the game. I know that your move 12 is a joseki (I saw it in a pro game I was studying - Redmond vs. Tahara Yasushi, Gosei tournament 2010-12-12). But it was played instead of the pincer on the top. After the pincer, I'm not sure if it is safe for white to play the knight's move, since he has thin connection. I also found it in a number of other pro games such as this Masao-Kaiho game:

$$Bc 24th Honinbo, game 4 Kato Masao - Rin Kaiho, 1969-05-22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc 24th Honinbo, game 4 Kato Masao - Rin Kaiho, 1969-05-22
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

White usually either pushes and cuts at a, or extends at b.

I found one pro game where it was very similar to ours (Komi was 5, the game ended in a Jigo):

$$Wc 12th Meijin, game 6. 1973-10-11. Rink Kaiho (B) Ishida Yoshio.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 6 . 1 X 9 , . X . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc 12th Meijin, game 6. 1973-10-11. Rink Kaiho (B) Ishida Yoshio.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 4 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 6 . 1 X 9 , . X . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So locally, I don't think your move 12 is wrong. In contrast, I couldn't find a single game where my knight's move (n14) was played, so perhaps it is not joseki. I have to go look that up again. I thought I had seen it as one. Not that I know the follow up!!

Certainly, lots of complicated variations after this!!

Cheers, and lets play again soon.

-David

[Banaan]

Short game indeed:)

Yes, 12 is a common move in Shusaku fuseki, only your keima (move 13) is a 1 space jump. That one space to the left changed a lot ;p