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Re: Richard Bozulich RIP
Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:14 pm
by Mivo
Joaz Banbeck wrote:Actually, you have the cart before the horse. People who live longer are more likely to be rumored dead.
What he said was a translated quote by
Erich Honecker, former head of East Germany, when he met with Gorbachev in 1989 ("Totgesagte leben länger.") It somehow became a semi-proverb.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 3:18 am
by tapir
kirkmc wrote:It's not about editorializing. It's about understand how journalism works.
I make my living as a journalist. There are some basic rules: check every fact twice. My writing is rarely about "news," but when it is, I check ever fact twice, and my editors check them as well. When blogging - and I have a blog that gets a fair number of page views - I _never_ blog about anything that hasn't been reported elsewhere, unless it's my opinion about something, or unless it's something that I have discovered and can demonstrate (I write about computers, so demonstration is possible).
I don't think bloggers - as opposed to real journalists who work for larger organizations - should ever "break news," unless they have at least two, or, even better, three sources that are indisputable. Your site is not a news site, and you got some info that you rightly thought would be interesting to your readers, and you were right in thinking that. However, you didn't confirm it, and that's very embarrassing, not just to you, but to the person you mentioned.
It's not the end of the world. I'm really just trying to be helpful here. I am the one who posted the info here, because I trusted that you had done the legwork; I won't make that mistake again.
You must be living in a different world, where I live, mainstream media is reducing the workforce constantly, people once making a living as journalists look for secondary jobs and media feels compelled to make headlines from 100% unconfirmed tweets retweeted often enough. And please how you get three independent sources for the kind of news in question, short of calling every close relative (now imagine more than one news outlet trying this)?
I wish journalism would work the way you describe it, but then why exactly so many news items in the well-known newspapers / channels turn out to be bogus a little later - when they aren't obviously wrong to begin with? In fact there are journalists who consciously make up whole news items or at least picturesque episodes to spice their reports or even interview deceased people...
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:06 am
by kitanifan
tapir wrote:kirkmc wrote:It's not about editorializing. It's about understand how journalism works.
I make my living as a journalist. There are some basic rules: check every fact twice. My writing is rarely about "news," but when it is, I check ever fact twice, and my editors check them as well. When blogging - and I have a blog that gets a fair number of page views - I _never_ blog about anything that hasn't been reported elsewhere, unless it's my opinion about something, or unless it's something that I have discovered and can demonstrate (I write about computers, so demonstration is possible).
I don't think bloggers - as opposed to real journalists who work for larger organizations - should ever "break news," unless they have at least two, or, even better, three sources that are indisputable. Your site is not a news site, and you got some info that you rightly thought would be interesting to your readers, and you were right in thinking that. However, you didn't confirm it, and that's very embarrassing, not just to you, but to the person you mentioned.
It's not the end of the world. I'm really just trying to be helpful here. I am the one who posted the info here, because I trusted that you had done the legwork; I won't make that mistake again.
You must be living in a different world, where I live, mainstream media is reducing the workforce constantly, people once making a living as journalists look for secondary jobs and media feels compelled to make headlines from 100% unconfirmed tweets retweeted often enough. And please how you get three independent sources for the kind of news in question, short of calling every close relative (now imagine more than one news outlet trying this)?
I wish journalism would work the way you describe it, but then why exactly so many news items in the well-known newspapers / channels turn out to be bogus a little later - when they aren't obviously wrong to begin with? In fact there are journalists who consciously make up whole news items or at least picturesque episodes to spice their reports or even interview deceased people...
I agree with kirkmc. Go game guru isn't (i hope) a sort of "tabloid press" which always tries to publish breaking and bombastic news. News about tournament go are easy to check, but news about death of somebody (news NO other sources actually confirmed) should not be published if you don't have any proofs. GGG should at least tell the readers that it's not confirmed and (than) just a rumor. GGG has, in my opinion, lost much credibility with that irresponsible kind of mistake.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:59 am
by tapir
What made you think I was talking about tabloid press? (I mean, we live in an age where reportedly the personal translator of a dictator can be a reuters correspondent. Sorry, this is a strictly non-political comment on professional standards.)
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:13 am
by Javaness2
I recently saw a completely made up story in a newspaper in the UK.
"Eastern Europeans stealing chewing gum to use as money in Romania"
Anyone who has been to Romania will know that the currency there is not Wrigleys.
So I take journalistic integrity with a pinch of salt
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:03 am
by daal
I think this journalistic "mistake" is being blown out of proportion. GoGameGuru got tricked, and many of us would have fallen for it ourselves. David tried his best to verify the information and I'm sure he won't make the same mistake again. Again, perhaps we should be a bit more forgiving of people such as David who, along with his partners at his website, are making a concerted effort to benefit the western go community. This forum is regrettably developing the ability to alienate such contributors.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:03 am
by tchan001
He apologized for his mistake, he replaced the original story with a new piece describing what he now knows to be the truth. That's good enough for me. Why dwell on the mistake when it has been acknowledged and fixed? I think GGG has kept the go community updated as timely as possible and has done as much as possible in this situation. We should just leave it be and move on.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:25 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Let's cut David some slack here. He received news from someone he trusts, and the alleged deceased was 75 years old and had been in the hospital. I know I would have passed it on as gospel truth.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:45 pm
by kitanifan
Tapir, "tabloid press" is not connected with your post. What i wanted to say is that uncritical spreading rumors is irresponsible. I wouldn't be so strict if it wasn't about death of somebody. Richard may be just amused, but someone else may take it more seriously.
I appeared to be stricter than i wanted in my first post here sice i really appreciate work of GGG, especially An Younggil's commentaries and professional scene coverage (i don't really like go shop idea), and David actually apologised. All i want is that they would be more careful in future. Though i must say that i am happy that it was mistake after all.
Re: Richard Bozulich RIP rumors
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:59 am
by Joaz Banbeck
[admin]
This thread seems to serve no useful purpose anymore. The original subject - the alleged death of Boulich - is pointless now that it turns out that he is alive. The debate over proper journalistic technique has ended, and the sole attraction for new posts seems to be to those who wish to comment on Mr. Bozulich himself, and to do so in a most inflamatory manner. This is immediately countered by those who disagree, and the debate quickly becomes in violation of the TOS.
I have recently deleted posts of the latter two types, and am convinced that additions to this thread are not likely to be constructive. So I am locking it.
-JB
[/admin]