You always have a choice between a solid connection and a hanging ("tiger's mouth") connection. Black would like to play this move anyway, so combining the hane and the connection into one move is very efficient. (The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.)
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:24 am
by EdLee
jts,
jts wrote:The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.
Here it's more important to make the solid connection in the game -- so B can block W's S3 hane.
Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:30 am
by EdLee
B should've been very happy to block with (instead of in the game), in sente -- if W tenuki, locally W is dead:
jts wrote:The solid connection, of course, allows B to respond to S3 at S2, so there is a trade-off.
Here it's more important to make the solid connection in the game -- so B can block W's S3 hane.
I don't disagree. (That's what I meant by "respond to S3 at S2".) I just think it's a good example of the hanging connection doing something besides creating bad aji - move that serves two purposes simultaneously.
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:21 pm
by Nathan
$$Wcm44 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
ok keeping my connection here with this nobi, if he goes for the cut its going to be a fight, and this nobi is strengthing a key stone in this fight if he so chooses to cut, this is going to be interesting, alot of reading
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:45 pm
by emeraldemon
I think black has the stronger position here, but I don't like this last move. It gives white the hane at "a" and the cut at "b".
$$Bcm45 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . a . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X b X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . X . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . 1 X . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Considered both j3 and o6.
j3 seems like a very big move in the game and i believe he will respond to it leaving me with sente. o6 is large as well but right now I feel j3 is more urgent.
edit.. I should probably have read here to make an informed decision... but thats why im still a 9 kyu
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:57 am
by 1986
$$Bcm47 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . 1 . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm49 Prisoners: $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . . X . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . , . . X . . X . . . . X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O 1 X . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . O X . O . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
oh well, i was expecting something else, i honestly thought he would jump into the center on the left side, or do something with the group thats floating on the right side, but the good thing about this move is it should be sente for me because he has to go for the cut and i get to play next, now for a good move
so far i like: i like K4, F15,& i like Q6 i like D9, D3 seems pro-ish, i like D10 too or i might just play P4 to avoid the cut fight naw i can win the cut fight read read read was something i learned the last game and im putting it into practice
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:36 pm
by jts
@1986
What are you reading out as happening locally if you take sente here? What do you read out as the likely sequences following from the other six moves you mentioned?
Re: #143 1986 vs Nathan
Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:48 pm
by emeraldemon
Now after white L3, the P4 aji is starting to look more and more tasty...
in the game -- so B can block W's S3 hane.
(instead of 
in the game), in sente --
tenuki
