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146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

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Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:29 pm
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . 3 X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O B . . B B . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want this group to live, and that will be hard if the stone he attached to is killed

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:42 am
by Sur
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O 4 . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:43 pm
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




This move is simple. I want life, and this secures it best (because it prevents the Hane on the second line.

I think his move might have been a mistake. If he wanted to strengthen his connection, he could have made a table shape. keeping in mind that is still a weak group, a table would be better of eye space (in my opinion).

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:04 am
by Sur
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:29 pm
by speedchase
I'm going to have to think about this for a while, I am trying to find a way to cut of the :wc: stones without getting myself killed.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X c . X X . W . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O b . a W W . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


right now I am considering turn at a, hane at b, and bad shape at c.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:24 pm
by speedchase
Right now I think that settling is more important than attacking his group, so that rules out the turn. I can't decide how to settle though. I don't like the hane or the empty triangle.
Still thinking...

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:22 pm
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X 7 . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Decided on the empty triangle because although it is bad shape I think it lives. of course the last time I thought something lived... I don't want to talk about it.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:29 am
by Sur
His group doesn't look alive yet, but I probably can't kill it just now. I have to think of a move that seals him in and gets sente.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:28 am
by uPWarrior
I can't see why they consider the bottom left dead, I think black can live or at the very least get a ko.

Main variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X 2 O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is there something I am missing? 10 at A2, 11 at A3. White can't go for a bent four because black will live.
And cut at D5 which is pretty nasty.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:59 am
by Aphelion
uPWarrior wrote:I can't see why they consider the bottom left dead, I think black can live or at the very least get a ko.

Main variation:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners:
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X 2 O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 1 3 X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . 5 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 8 6 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Is there something I am missing? 10 at A2, 11 at A3. White can't go for a bent four because black will live.
And cut at D5 which is pretty nasty.

White 10 at A3?

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:54 am
by uPWarrior
Aphelion wrote:White 10 at A3?


I knew it had to be something simple, given that everyone else discarded that option.
The cut is still ugly. Though I can't read it fully, I think white can manage it.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:00 am
by Sur
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:53 am
by Puppycakes
:b37: is beyond ugly. It shouldn't have been considered as a possible move. :w38: is painful. Now, even if black lives, he's still in terrible shape.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:58 pm
by lightvector
Black has been too worried this game about making immediate life for his groups.

Better to keep moving out into the open, expand into the side or center, avoid being enclosed. Especially if you can cut the opponent's groups apart as you do so. Your opponent can't kill you if he can't surround you.

Re: 146- speedchase 8kyu versus sur 7k

Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:04 am
by speedchase
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . 9 . O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He needs a move to prevent this

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . X X . O . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O 2 X 5 O O . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 O 3 . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , O . O . . , . . . . X , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . X . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X , O . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . X . . X . . X . O . . . . |
$$ | . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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