I think he is the more skilled player; I did not even read that move. Best to let him live in gote and maintain influence towards center and side.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:18 pm
by Twitchy Go
I Think I get how triggers work. I am supposed to pick my move before looking at the trigger, is it convention to post the diagram first and then edit in the sequence? And of course if you disagree with the sequence you can ignore it? If my move is correct for the start of the trigger and branches off somewhere along the line, can I move up to that point or is the trigger all or nothing? Finally, if its a different sequence then the one you read out, i.e. if there was a branch to go for territory or outside influence, and you read out the territory line. If your opponent offers you the influence line, that you might not have seen, can you use it anyway?
This is correct? Sorry for the delay my unfamiliarity is causing.
My thoughts in advance while I await clarification
$$Wcm42 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | a W . O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm42 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | a W . O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X b . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White 42 really surprised me, the move is good but it strikes me as inconsistent. The marked stone, to me, indicates a desire for the corner. With this W is changing direction, again not bad, it just came as a surprise. a and b are moves I instantly considered.
I think this is the trigger. We both have Ko threats and even if I don't win I can(hopefully) lock(as in settle beyond a doubt) the top left corner down completely and make more shape with that wall of mine. Perhaps I can even unsettle his group again!
Score Evaluation: My top left group looks bigger then his top left group at the moment. He can squeeze a few more points out of it then it already has but its possible he could be living quite small. In attacking that group I should try to seal it in, or in some way strengthen the right. If my invasion dies I want to make sure that my upper right corner is just as secure and hopeful larger then his lower left. His right corner is still open to invasion/approach moves and the bottom is invadable. All and all I'm pretty happy with the games development.
Here's to hoping for an interesting Ko fight But as Ed Lee said earlier, that's not Go Here's to being wonderfully surprised then!!
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:44 pm
by Wanderling
I thought trigger was you look and either accept or play your move.
Someone else?
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:54 pm
by Twitchy Go
I suppose as long as we agree on what the trigger does we can move the game along. Barring someone else shedding light on the standard practice how does this sound.
Pick your move before looking at the trigger, this is just on the honor system. The idea is to not provide a bias towards one decision. If you already decided agains't the move. You shouldn't get to say.. no wait I like my opponents main line lets play that instead.
Assuming your move matches the trigger, you may follow the sequence as far as you wish ending either when there are no moves left or when your move deviates. I feel this is better then all or nothing. The theory is that since a trigger was provided that player would have responded identically to the trigger if play had progressed normally. That's why it was offered after all. If you disagree with your opponents idea for your move 3 for example, if you deny the trigger and then play the trigger move that would... well that tells your opponent he's might be missing something.
Sound good, at least for now?
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:27 am
by Wanderling
I agree, go for it.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:50 am
by Twitchy Go
Be sure to keep captures in the diagram tags from now on.
I did consider trying to indirectly defend by playing at a. This reduces his threats against my corner and makes them less severe. With a in place even with the resulting 1-2 step ko I have more ko threats so I don't think he would want to fight it. On the other hand, if he neglects to answer B47 I have some nice aji and/or endgame against the bottom. I also like how B looks on this board so I'll take my life in the corner and see what W wants to do.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:51 pm
by Wanderling
$$Wcm48 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 the other move $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X 5 X 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 3 2 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The descent is an attempt to take sente. above was the other move I considered. Shown is the main line I considered. Going to Ko again. Alternatively he could have backed off at a. This would give me the choice to either play at 3 to lock in my corner points, or tenuki leaving him the option to play for a slightly bigger ko.
$$Wcm1 what I did and why $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X 6 X 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 8 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 9 7 . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 what I did and why $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X 6 X 1 . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . 8 5 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 0 9 7 . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I decided I liked the descent though. If he responds I play elsewhere, leaving him the endgame reduction at 5. If he tenukis I have the monkey jump at a, or invasion aji threatening to link up.
Edit: More thoughts
Another advantage to descending is his shape isn't quite as good as if I hane. By no means is it bad. I'm just not going to help him make it even better.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:30 pm
by Wanderling
Thought I had posted this earlier today, sorry for the wait.
$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I like this move. I can still invade bottom. I can still jump into the 3-3. There is also still a weakness at R6. So making my framework stronger is something I can get behind W will probably do one of a few things. A)start closing off bottom or corner. B) Reduce me on the top. C)Jump up to protect R6 and threaten to jump into my framework. I doubt W will invade though. I know I'd be worried about my invasion inadvertently sealing in my group in the top left as W, although perhaps I'm overly cautious. I'll wait and see.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:35 pm
by Wanderling
$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Reduction it is then. I'm not sure how I feel about L11 as the start. It threatens two things, cutting off my chain. Or reducing my upper right. However I can threaten to kill or connect up.. So lets try that.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:14 pm
by Wanderling
$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O 1 X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . a . . O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . b O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm not going to get greedy. I'll shoot for turning as much of the space between L15 and Q10 into territory as possible. First to defend the upper portion by defending my small knight against a cut and threatening to cut off his group and turn it into a Life and Death situation. Of course now there's aji in that I have an incomplete bamboo joint. But W doesn't have time for that. 'a' is a good follow up if he doesn't defend the cut though. Making eyespace for my chain while threatening to kill his group. Which brings me to the life and death status of that chain, now behind enemy lines. Attaching at 'b' gets me an eye so eye in gote so I just need one eye in sente somewhere else.
Re: 164. Twitchy Go v Wanderling
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:42 am
by Wanderling
$$Bcm49 Captures: B-1 W-0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . O X X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . 8 O . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X X . X . . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , O . . . . , . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X . X O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . X . X O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
