I started this post with "Still thinking" ... but I came to the conclusion that I'll definitely learn from this regardless of the outcome. Here's the reasoning I followed to get to where I ended up.
I'm really not sure how best to handle this position ... the right is not urgent enough for me to play there, I think.
A) Black's lower group seems like the easiest group to attack ... but how? I saw a move like 'a' in a recent pro game that Araban posted (the "Strength Analysis Experiment" game that recently completed; Game 4, Move 42 at L5 here), and I've been looking for positions where it might be good since then. It threatens to split Black at H3 while still leaving an open skirt on both sides. In addition, H5 can be trated as a light stone, but the aji can help me to reduce the amount of influence that group can attain.
B) In a similar way, I could peep at Black's weak point here. When Black connects, I was thinking about making a jump out to N6, again focusing on influence over territory. I suppose it invites a fight, but at this point I'm backsliding into my more fighting style of play. I don't think I'll ever learn to play a calm game.
C) On the other side of the board, I was thinking that 'c' is a dual purpose move, threatening escape by my top group and threatening to expand my influence towards the center with my right side group.
D) Again, the idea is to strengthen my weakest group.
Hmmm ... I think I might try for the following sequence:
You know what? It's time to play. This is probably a mistake, but I need to learn how to fight with influence and it's the best idea I have for this board. I'm treating and as light stones, and I'm looking to use them to expand my moyo on the right.
What is this ... I attached to his stone, and then he threatens to cut one stone. It does make the right bigger, but if he cuts this one stone, I'll s6. Also, I cannot just connect this. It gives me horrible shape, and then lets him keep attacking. It'll start a big fight, but I feel confident that I can do well.
My move here is to settle my group. Also I have an eye on doing something on the left. This should help with that.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:52 am
by Marcus
$$Wcm42 Move 42 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm42 Move 42 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is sente, builds my upper left a bit. Also, he can't just attach underneath my stone here. I'll cut, and I haven't seen a variation that doesn't end well for me.
I'm still eyeing the possibility of reducing his right. I notice that right now I'm far ahead in firm territory, while he has better potential.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 2:40 pm
by ketchup
Redundant wrote:
$$Bcm43 Move 43 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm46 Move 46 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was looking at the game ... and we've played 46 stones, not 44. Must have missed updating somewhere ...
I suppose he could pincer my high stone ... but I really need to build up right now. Can't get too caught up with local moves if I want to catch up.
Also, I've been having too much fun playing tenuki so often. Why stop now? This move has the added benefit of linking up my top group with my ever-expanding moyo on the right.
Plus, I want my opponent to follow ME around the board. Eventually, I have to fix things that I leave behind ... but let's see how much I can do at my own pace instead of my opponent's.
Oh ... I'm still about 25 behind in territory, by my rough estimate. However, Black needs to respond to my moyo before it gets too big. That will allow me a few moves to pick up the slack, I think.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:05 pm
by topazg
I don't want to be rude (at least, I normally try not to be), but what is this nonsense. Peep, then tenuki when your opponent ignores it?? That's not a peep, it's arty farty stone throwing. If you make a threat, and your opponent lets you follow it up, follow it up or it was a non-threat in the first place. In this case, that cut was huge:
$$Wcm42 Move 42 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . C . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X 1 X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm48 Move 48 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok, no tenuki this time. Which direction will he choose? Will HE tenuki? Let's see ...
This game is exciting me. Regardless of the outcome, I'm enjoying myself. That counts for something, right?
I guess I've stopped giving useful information about my moves. To be honest, I'm experimenting. I'm pretty sure, given the level of the commentators that seem to be leaving messages, that they are providing a bit more detail than I am, and probably have a better idea of what to do as well. Once I reached 5k or so, I discovered that I had no clue how to play in the middle game. I'll correct that eventually, but for now my middle game is probably as erratic as someone of 8k or 9k would be.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the observers are saying about the game, and I admit I'm partially choosing some of my moves to entice discussion. What good are these games if not for discussion?
I'm particularly interested in opinions on overall strategy. When White chose to tenuki to Q10 and to D10, was that sound strategic reasoning? How should White be using those stones? Was leaving the top group as it was the right call on this board?
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:51 pm
by Redundant
$$Bcm49 Move 49 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm49 Move 49 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can't find a reason for white's last move. It seems really bad shape, so I'll let it punish itself. My move is sente. If he tenukis I'll scoop out his entire side. I'm hoping to gain some agi to get the S6 cut working well.
Re: Malkovich #37 Redundant (4k) vs Marcus (4k)
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:01 pm
by Marcus
$$Wcm50 Move 50 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm50 Move 50 - Prisoners: B=0, W=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . X . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . X O . . O . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . O O X X . X . X . X . . O O . X . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . X O . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
He DID! He DID tenuki! It's not like this move was all that unexpected. I need to keep him as low as possible. My rough count didn't include much territory here for just this reason. He can STILL reduce further.
I need to pick my timing and surround a chunk of the center.I'm also watching to see if I can make a bit of a reduction to that corner ... I haven't worked out the best way to do that, though.
and 
as light stones, and I'm looking to use them to expand my moyo on the right.