[go]$$Wcm56 Move 56 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X 1 X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
only move for me
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:58 am
by Phelan
I wonder if magicwand just played the safe move as a preference, or if there was something bad I didn't see about playing L13.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 4:49 am
by Phelan
Does anyone know where Daniel_the_smith is? I can't wait for people to move in this game...
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 6:53 am
by Harleqin
Phelan wrote:
I wonder if magicwand just played the safe move as a preference, or if there was something bad I didn't see about playing L13.
The bad thing about L13 is that Black can immediately cut at O13.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:02 am
by Phelan
Argh. I suppose I can't read that, can I?
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:07 am
by Harleqin
Magicwand wrote:For you to get stronger you must first distinguish if what your opponent plays is an overplay or not. Then you find the move that will overcome that play by reading skills.
I'd like to pull out this quote to comment on it. I believe that this attitude is wrong. Intuition is important, but it cannot overrule the facts. So, if you have the hunch that something might be an overplay, you have to read out what you can do. If you cannot find a way to exploit it to your advantage, you will have to assume that it is not an overplay. Still trying to "overcome" it by playing the hardest moves you can find can then only lead to tears.
I wonder how Magicwand overcomes the cognitive dissonance of screaming "overplay" at every second of his opponents' moves and still, like everyone else, losing 50% of his games.
This is not meant to offend him, but I think that it should be mentioned.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:40 am
by Magicwand
Harleqin wrote:
Magicwand wrote:For you to get stronger you must first distinguish if what your opponent plays is an overplay or not. Then you find the move that will overcome that play by reading skills.
I'd like to pull out this quote to comment on it. I believe that this attitude is wrong. Intuition is important, but it cannot overrule the facts. So, if you have the hunch that something might be an overplay, you have to read out what you can do. If you cannot find a way to exploit it to your advantage, you will have to assume that it is not an overplay. Still trying to "overcome" it by playing the hardest moves you can find can then only lead to tears.
I wonder how Magicwand overcomes the cognitive dissonance of screaming "overplay" at every second of his opponents' moves and still, like everyone else, losing 50% of his games.
This is not meant to offend him, but I think that it should be mentioned.
there is a famous quote my my master's master named "cho nam chul" "if the shape looks funny there is tesuji there to be found."
it's like a solving a problem with knowing the answer. all you have to do is find how you got there. it is much easier to solve them if you know the answer.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 6:57 am
by daniel_the_smith
Sorry guys, it was a busy weekend I'll play soon.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:38 am
by daniel_the_smith
$$Bcm57 Move 56 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . 1 . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm57 Move 56 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X 5 4 2 . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . 3 . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Everything stays connected like this. can be at for a more complicated sequence which I think also lets us connect; White gets a second eye this way, but maybe not if we play like that. hmm...
$$Bcm57 Move 56 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . 5 O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . 3 2 6 . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . 7 4 X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm57 Move 56 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . 5 O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . 3 2 6 . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . 7 4 X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
That looks fine for us, but could be a ko threat at n3, a move I definitely don't want to encourage white to make. Q8 might be a threat for us, but I think white can get two threats if they start at m4.
Just connecting that stone seems very passive, though. It does keep white to just one eye, so we'll get forcing moves, but is that enough? Maybe, I think we came out ahead in the bottom right.
I guess I'll connect on the rich men don't pick fights principle. On KGS I'd definitely push through that gap. I have a feeling Violence wants me to push through like I want to.
...I almost changed it, but I won't. I know I have a tendency to play too thinly, so this will be my overcompensation.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 9:41 am
by Phelan
Just teminding topazg that it's his turn.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:43 am
by iSoma
Phelan wrote:Argh. I suppose I can't read that, can I?
I think he meant more like N13. And yes you can.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 11:49 am
by topazg
EDIT: I've moved:P
$$Wcm58 Move 58 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm58 Move 58 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . a O X X b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I've decided that this move both threatens to make an eye and steal the corner, and also activates the aji with the followup at "a". Both "b" and "c" look like fun followups as well. Lots to do, lots of fun to have
Further edit: Ideally, I'm hoping we can make an eye in sente in this corner, and then look to invade at "d". Then in my opinion White has a realistic chance in the game again.
Re: 3v3 Malkovitch Rengo #1
Posted: Tue May 04, 2010 2:05 pm
by Jordus
$$Bcm59 Move 59 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm59 Move 59 Prisoners White 0 Black 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I was hoping white would play somewhere non-trivial because I have a sequence up my sleeve break their game. More details on that later.
Since white played towards the corner, We have a possible 20+ points at stake here. I contemplated a few moves.
This one seemed bad to me because it gives white a chance to attack into the corner at a and the chance to take the side(marked with blue lines). Same thing goes for at a. That leaves that side open for whites taking.
$$Bcm $$ {LN R8 R5} $$ {LN R8 T8} $$ {LN R5 T5} $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X O O . O O X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . X O X O X O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . X . . O X . . | $$ | . . O . X . . . . . . . X . O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . O X O . O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , X . X X O , 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . O X X . a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
I'll play soon.
can be at 
for a more complicated sequence which I think also lets us connect; White gets a second eye this way, but maybe not if we play like that. hmm...
could be a ko threat at n3, a move I definitely don't want to encourage white to make. Q8 might be a threat for us, but I think white can get two threats if they start at m4.
at a. That leaves that side open for whites taking.