I decided to change the format here a little bit. I still will comment on the games, and provide the SGF. But I'll pick a couple of positions that I felt to be "key moments" and post them as diagrams to promote discussion.
This way I still review the entire game, but can thoroughly think about positions that I thought were more challenging.
Kirby's Study Journal
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Kirby
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I won this game, but I almost lost it.
Here is the game:
[/go]
And as mentioned earlier, listed below are a few interesting positions.
Position 1
The marked white stone, above, was an interesting response for me. I've seen it before, I think, and I vaguely remember something about a guy named Kitani when I see this move. But I didn't remember what was "proper".
During the game, I felt that 'a' was the same as what I'd play if 'b' had been played instead of white's marked move, and therefore must be inferior. I tried to just walk along the outside to get some influence, but now I don't think that was the best strategy.
Using eidogo to look for this pattern, I can see a game between Sakata Eio and Kitani Minoru where black plays at 'a'.
Maybe simply playing at 'a' is an OK response. What do you think?
Position 2 When white played the marked stone above, I assumed the status of the marked group was seki. However, as was seen later on, black can start a double ko by throwing in at the marked point. I didn't consider the implications of the position, and just went about my day. White has a lot of points in the center, and I can't afford to be this casual.
If white had simply filled the marked empty intersection, I think he can have seki if he wants it.
Maybe I then lose the game.
(Interestingly, the "go" coordinate in the SGF file appears to screw up the "go" tag for the first diagram. That's why I posted a closing go tag after the SGF, even though it doesn't apply to anything meaningful.)
Here is the game:
[/go]
And as mentioned earlier, listed below are a few interesting positions.
Position 1
The marked white stone, above, was an interesting response for me. I've seen it before, I think, and I vaguely remember something about a guy named Kitani when I see this move. But I didn't remember what was "proper".
During the game, I felt that 'a' was the same as what I'd play if 'b' had been played instead of white's marked move, and therefore must be inferior. I tried to just walk along the outside to get some influence, but now I don't think that was the best strategy.
Using eidogo to look for this pattern, I can see a game between Sakata Eio and Kitani Minoru where black plays at 'a'.
Maybe simply playing at 'a' is an OK response. What do you think?
Position 2 When white played the marked stone above, I assumed the status of the marked group was seki. However, as was seen later on, black can start a double ko by throwing in at the marked point. I didn't consider the implications of the position, and just went about my day. White has a lot of points in the center, and I can't afford to be this casual.
If white had simply filled the marked empty intersection, I think he can have seki if he wants it.
Maybe I then lose the game.
(Interestingly, the "go" coordinate in the SGF file appears to screw up the "go" tag for the first diagram. That's why I posted a closing go tag after the SGF, even though it doesn't apply to anything meaningful.)
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Move ContentCatching Scent of Victory (Strategy 5), O Rissei 9d wrote: Although in this position it may be considered natural and inevitable, Cho Honinbo always looks for the best move and goes to great pains to do so. Seeing him figure as what might be called a seeker of truth, one is deeply impressed.
Playinginstantly or playing
Looking back over the post-game commentary in a few of the games I've played here, I see that I'm sometimes distressed that I didn't read more carefully during the game. I played something silly and without thought. Considering how long I've played this game, that I've done go problems in the past, and that I've seen a lot of tesujis, there is really no reason for me not to... play better. Yes, I could study more, and yes I could try to learn more. But when I'm playing a game, I play a lot of slack - and I should care more.
I've always liked the quote by O Rissei 9d, given above. I don't remember what
was at all, and to me, it wasn't the point. The point struck me in the last sentence - the move was the same move on the board, but in terms of content, there was a world of difference.So what is this "content" that exists in moves? What gives a move content, and what makes a move... empty? The answer - that which makes a "world of difference" in one's play - must lie in the essence of being a seeker of truth. It must be found not on the board where
never changes. The answer must be found outside of the board... And I guess, within myself. My plan and my strategy behind my moves... That is what gives a move content. Not the fact that I played , and not the fact that I incidentally captured my opponent and won the game without having had any premonition of the event.So I want to discover what this "world of difference" is. I want to experience the feeling of living on the other side. And I want to play that way in my games.
Today's Game
With these thoughts in mind, I began a game today. Faced with the empty board, I said to myself that I wanted to play a game that was meaningful. I wanted to play on the side that makes, as O Rissei 9d stated, a "world of difference". And did I experience it?
No, I don't think that I did. But I think that I was a little bit closer than usual. There are at least three distinct parts of the game where I remember feeling that I didn't really want to read what would happen, but I read the situation out, made a plan, and acted accordingly. But that was for only three board positions of the 218 moves we played.
So I cannot call myself a "seeker of truth", yet. I haven't experienced the "world of difference". But, again, I think I'm a little bit closer. Perhaps I am a "seeker of the essence of seeking for truth". Or perhaps, I'm simply still a tad too lazy.
Time Management
I also learned today that it is exceedingly difficult to be a "seeker of truth" in the limited time I have to play the game. I play games ranging from blitz to around 30 minutes a game (plus byo-yomi). Given a conservative estimate of a 200 move game, that's about 9 seconds per move (without byo-yomi). In reality, I only play half of those moves, and byo-yomi accounts for a lot. But the point remains that I have to make important decisions - difficult ones for a seeker of truth - in a very short amount of time.
So I am starting to believe that it is important to use each second in a game without waste. How can the "truth be sought" with these time constraints? I suppose it can only be sought by trying one's very best within the time that is allotted.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Position for Analysis 1
Black has just played the marked stone here. Where would you play? I played as below:
After this, my feeling now is that it might be good to play this way:
However, in the game I played this way:
Position for Analysis 2
Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone? I played this way:
Position for Analysis 2
Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone? I played this way:
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Time Analysis
In light of my previous discussion on the importance of time in games, I decided to analyze my recent games. I've been playing a lot of games this month, so I gathered all of these game records, and parsed the time I spent playing each move from each of the games. I gathered these results, and grouped them by time settings. I have been playing games that are timed at either 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or 1 minute (plus byo-yomi).
I aggregated the results by time setting. The fast 1 minute games had a non-significant amount of time before byo-yomi started, so I didn't bother making a chart for those results. The results from the other time settings, however, are shown below:
These graphs show the median time in seconds that I spent thinking per move, before I entered byo-yomi (for which no data are recorded). I then took the median amount of time spent per move for both the 30 minute games and the 10 minute games:
From this data, I've observed two things:
1.) The distribution of time I spend for each game type is skewed toward the early and late periods of the game. This is not totally conclusive, as the data does not include byo-yomi time. Still, graph appears to show a distinct pattern to correspond to this hypothesis.
2.) I do not spend enough time thinking per move in either case. I suspected this before collecting data, so I may have been a bit biased. However, spending only around 3 to 5 seconds a move doesn't make use of the non-byo-yomi time. If I'm going to play this fast, then I might as well play with zero time, and only byo-yomi. In either case, it doesn't sound like a "seeker of truth" would be playing this fast.
Feel free to state any observations or thoughts on this analysis.
In light of my previous discussion on the importance of time in games, I decided to analyze my recent games. I've been playing a lot of games this month, so I gathered all of these game records, and parsed the time I spent playing each move from each of the games. I gathered these results, and grouped them by time settings. I have been playing games that are timed at either 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or 1 minute (plus byo-yomi).
I aggregated the results by time setting. The fast 1 minute games had a non-significant amount of time before byo-yomi started, so I didn't bother making a chart for those results. The results from the other time settings, however, are shown below:
These graphs show the median time in seconds that I spent thinking per move, before I entered byo-yomi (for which no data are recorded). I then took the median amount of time spent per move for both the 30 minute games and the 10 minute games:
- 5.381 seconds per move for 30 minute games
- 3.6885 seconds per move for 10 minute games
From this data, I've observed two things:
1.) The distribution of time I spend for each game type is skewed toward the early and late periods of the game. This is not totally conclusive, as the data does not include byo-yomi time. Still, graph appears to show a distinct pattern to correspond to this hypothesis.
2.) I do not spend enough time thinking per move in either case. I suspected this before collecting data, so I may have been a bit biased. However, spending only around 3 to 5 seconds a move doesn't make use of the non-byo-yomi time. If I'm going to play this fast, then I might as well play with zero time, and only byo-yomi. In either case, it doesn't sound like a "seeker of truth" would be playing this fast.
Feel free to state any observations or thoughts on this analysis.
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TIM82
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Position for Analysis 1
I'd play 2. Since black is strong in bottom right, any more ambitious extension seems to call in an attack / invasion? You said L3 is easy to attack, but isn't L4 even more so? Additionally, stabile L3-O3 group serves to reduce black influence from bottom right, and works decently with the hoshi on left. I'd prefer white in above diagram above as a matter of style.
If black plays on left, too many possible variations, but can't be unplayable?
Position for Analysis 2
Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone? W1, which you played, is my first reaction too.
If black plays on left, too many possible variations, but can't be unplayable?
Position for Analysis 2
Where would you play in this position after black has played the marked stone? W1, which you played, is my first reaction too.
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logan
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Yes, I would also play here:
There's also a lot of aji in Black's position.
With amount of center influence it will be difficult for either player to make significant territory in the center, so the focus should now be on the corner and side areas. B is very large next. White can reduce easily with A if Black omits finish that shape around there, and C/D are miai -- if Black tries to destroy one, White will gain the other. A move such as E can also become better, making miai of F/G/H.
here is too easy on Black and doesn't focus on the corner appropriately. Black has a good followup at A or B here; then the corner is open at C or G; and after White D Black still can reduce the area with moves such as E/F so White won't gain enough in this area.
With amount of center influence it will be difficult for either player to make significant territory in the center, so the focus should now be on the corner and side areas. B is very large next. White can reduce easily with A if Black omits finish that shape around there, and C/D are miai -- if Black tries to destroy one, White will gain the other. A move such as E can also become better, making miai of F/G/H.
here is too easy on Black and doesn't focus on the corner appropriately. Black has a good followup at A or B here; then the corner is open at C or G; and after White D Black still can reduce the area with moves such as E/F so White won't gain enough in this area.-
Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Thank you for responding, TIM82. This diagram in particular, certainly does look better than what was played in the game: And, it feels more natural and flexible.TIM82 wrote: ... ...
Perhaps it is best to play the two space extension. My fear was that the low stones like that could get pressed down, and black could use it to benefit his influence.
For example, later in the game: So my instinct, perhaps, was that these low stones would just be abused. However, as you say, playing high invites the invasion directly, and puts me in an awkward shape!
So logically, I feel that the two space extension, as you suggest, is superior. It doesn't feel totally satisfactory to me because of black's strength in the area.
However, I cannot think of a better way to play.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Thank you for your feedback, logan. What you say seems to make sense, but I have one question: Doesn't thelogan wrote:...
With amount of center influence it will be difficult for either player to make significant territory in the center, so the focus should now be on the corner and side areas. B is very large next. White can reduce easily with A if Black omits finish that shape around there, and C/D are miai -- if Black tries to destroy one, White will gain the other. A move such as E can also become better, making miai of F/G/H.
...
exchange, above, benefit black?That is, I feel that black can strengthen his stone in response, which works nicely with the top right black stones. What do you think?
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Time Analysis (Addendum)
I thought more about the time analysis that I did yesterday on the games I've played this month. A flaw in the analysis, which I pointed out, is significant: the times don't include byo-yomi, so it makes sense for a skew to occur near the end of the recorded time. That's because, if I enter a difficult period of the game, I might use up a lot of time and enter byo-yomi, and then in byo-yomi I might play faster, for example.
Regardless, the median thinking times do indicate that I play quickly around move 30 in both time scenarios. So I was careful to keep this in mind in the game I played today.
I thought more about the time analysis that I did yesterday on the games I've played this month. A flaw in the analysis, which I pointed out, is significant: the times don't include byo-yomi, so it makes sense for a skew to occur near the end of the recorded time. That's because, if I enter a difficult period of the game, I might use up a lot of time and enter byo-yomi, and then in byo-yomi I might play faster, for example.
Regardless, the median thinking times do indicate that I play quickly around move 30 in both time scenarios. So I was careful to keep this in mind in the game I played today.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I won this game, but I do not think I was ahead. In accordance with the time analysis I posted earlier, I took my time from around move 30. The game stats I collected indicated that I usually play quickly around this period of the game, so I tried extra hard to play carefully around this time.
My opponent ended up resigning while I was thinking about a move. However, as can be seen in the game record, I think I am losing at this point in the game.
My opponent ended up resigning while I was thinking about a move. However, as can be seen in the game record, I think I am losing at this point in the game.
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Kirby
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Question to Ponder #1
At this point in the game, I tried to identify the biggest place for me to play. In the end, I selected the marked invasion point. However, as can be seen in the game, this was a bad idea, as black could (and did) attack the right white group, while also attacking the invading stone.
In retrospect, I felt that defending around 'a' might be better. What do you think?
Question to Ponder #2
At this point in the game, I felt that I had suffered from the attack on my group (which I didn't defend from the last position!), so I felt the need to reduce black's influence. I played the marked stone in an attempt to do this, and even planned to double atari if he responded at 'a'. As it turns out, he cut at 'b', which seemed to me to be a strong response.
Do I have an alternative to the marked white stone in this board position? How might you play from here? Black's influence seems significant, and I'd like to hold on to the game here. I could play calmly at around 'b' and take territory, but black's influence would continue to expand. What would you do?
At this point in the game, I tried to identify the biggest place for me to play. In the end, I selected the marked invasion point. However, as can be seen in the game, this was a bad idea, as black could (and did) attack the right white group, while also attacking the invading stone.
In retrospect, I felt that defending around 'a' might be better. What do you think?
Question to Ponder #2
At this point in the game, I felt that I had suffered from the attack on my group (which I didn't defend from the last position!), so I felt the need to reduce black's influence. I played the marked stone in an attempt to do this, and even planned to double atari if he responded at 'a'. As it turns out, he cut at 'b', which seemed to me to be a strong response.
Do I have an alternative to the marked white stone in this board position? How might you play from here? Black's influence seems significant, and I'd like to hold on to the game here. I could play calmly at around 'b' and take territory, but black's influence would continue to expand. What would you do?
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ez4u
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
Let's step back one move to the position below. (In the game White jumped down to 4 and Black descended at 10 next.) I think this is the natural timing to considerKirby wrote:Question to Ponder #1
At this point in the game, I tried to identify the biggest place for me to play. In the end, I selected the marked invasion point. However, as can be seen in the game, this was a bad idea, as black could (and did) attack the right white group, while also attacking the invading stone.
In retrospect, I felt that defending around 'a' might be better. What do you think?
...
below. Right now 1 is a dual-purpose move, it strengthens White group and in doing so, threatens to invade at 9. Imagine that Black goes ahead and jumps in at , which you were concerned about. The normal sequence to 8 ends in sente for White and allows the natural follow-up at 
. This trade of the upper left for the upper right would leave White well positioned. The initial is helpful in limiting what Black can achieve in the center. Of course White should also think about whether to enclose the bottom around "a" before invading the upper right corner. Even if Black goes ahead and plays at 10, there are still invasion points on the top side. In the game, I think that invading the top was an overplay. However, by now simply jumping out is a pure defensive move. Would it have been better to simply go back to play
below? If now then 
is easier to play. The stone at is waiting to help out and since the gap at the top is still open, a jump around "a" threatens both the invasion of the top and turning behind the capping stone at .
Dave Sigaty
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"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
My first impression from the 30 min. graph is that you run into difficulty around move 125. That suggests to me that you have not planned adequately. Remember that often the answer to the question, "What do I do in this position?" is "Don't get into that position."Kirby wrote:Time Analysis
In light of my previous discussion on the importance of time in games, I decided to analyze my recent games. I've been playing a lot of games this month, so I gathered all of these game records, and parsed the time I spent playing each move from each of the games. I gathered these results, and grouped them by time settings. I have been playing games that are timed at either 30 minutes, 10 minutes, or 1 minute (plus byo-yomi).
I aggregated the results by time setting. The fast 1 minute games had a non-significant amount of time before byo-yomi started, so I didn't bother making a chart for those results. The results from the other time settings, however, are shown below:
These graphs show the median time in seconds that I spent thinking per move, before I entered byo-yomi (for which no data are recorded). I then took the median amount of time spent per move for both the 30 minute games and the 10 minute games:
---
- 5.381 seconds per move for 30 minute games
- 3.6885 seconds per move for 10 minute games
From this data, I've observed two things:
1.) The distribution of time I spend for each game type is skewed toward the early and late periods of the game. This is not totally conclusive, as the data does not include byo-yomi time. Still, graph appears to show a distinct pattern to correspond to this hypothesis.
2.) I do not spend enough time thinking per move in either case. I suspected this before collecting data, so I may have been a bit biased. However, spending only around 3 to 5 seconds a move doesn't make use of the non-byo-yomi time. If I'm going to play this fast, then I might as well play with zero time, and only byo-yomi. In either case, it doesn't sound like a "seeker of truth" would be playing this fast.
Feel free to state any observations or thoughts on this analysis.
May I suggest, following Jowa's advice, that you take time around move 100 to assess the position and plan your play? I don't know that you are playing too quickly. If you go into byo-yomi around move 146, then you have made around 73 moves in 30 min., or around 25 sec. per move. That does not seem too quick to me. (Or am I drawing the wrong conclusion from the graph?
) How about setting aside 5 min. for assessment and planning at around move 100? And while we are at it, 5 min. for move 50 and 5 min. for move 30? (Following Jowa's advice.
) I know that that comes to half your main time, but isn't main time for taking longer than 30 sec. on single moves? BTW, what kinds of positions cause you to take the most time? That may suggest what to study.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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hyperpape
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal
I think for a lot of us, main time is for playing without anxiety about time management.
Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy--I often end up playing too fast) during main time, but somehow feels like a huge pressure in byo-yomi.
I'm confident that curing this would be worth at least a stone's strength in faster games.
Consistently playing in 20 seconds is easy (almost impossibly easy--I often end up playing too fast) during main time, but somehow feels like a huge pressure in byo-yomi.
I'm confident that curing this would be worth at least a stone's strength in faster games.