[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . d e . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . c f . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If I play e or f he can just connect underneath, no problem. I think the other moves "work" but the results are complicated. I think a and b are the most orthodox and seem less complicated and better shape. But they still depend on ladders.
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 3 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O W . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . 6 . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 1 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 3 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This is absolutely terrifying. Is there a sequence in response to that keeps my group alive AND keeps the ladder working?
And that's just the hane variations for those two attachments. It's bad shape for white to nobi (hane at the head of two), but that doesn't mean it's impossible.
So maybe I need to broaden my vision a bit. Cutting white right now is too dangerous. I need strength, or at least some ladder breakers in my favor.
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 5 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O 2 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 5 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . 3 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O 2 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Maybe something like this is possible. I guess he wouldn't actually allow this sequence, but getting something in compensation (e.g. at ) might be pretty decent. Maybe there's a move in the upper right that reinforces my group there in sente allowing me to play the other ladder. Or maybe there's a move in the upper left corner that lets me secure territory and also activates the cut on that side.
This is a chance for me to prove that I can get creative when it comes to go.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:14 am
by dfan
fwiffo wrote:This is a chance for me to prove that I can get creative when it comes to go.
Noooooooo
I've said this before, but a ton of mistakes at our level are caused by trying to get too creative
It'll be interesting to see how this works out!
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:39 pm
by fwiffo
$$Wcm41 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O . X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 3 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 2 5 . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . 4 O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:07 pm
by fwiffo
I'm not going to move tonight, I'm just too upset about my bike. But I anticipate something like this. He's not going to let me have that ladder, but I had to make it work for this sequence to be possible.
Of course, this seems too straightforward, and white needs to make things more complicated in a handicap game.
$$Wcm51 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . 9 . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 4 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | 7 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O 4 X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As per previous analysis, I either get to catch a stone in a ladder, radically weakening the white three stone group, or I get to cut on the other side, isolating the single white stone and creating a lot of potential in the upper left.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:14 pm
by Magicwand
$$Wcm51 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | 7 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Let me know if you disagree.
I thought about pushing with D9 first, but he might capture instead of connecting, which would make B11 no longer forcing. I might be stuck with a ko that I probably can't win, and I don't think it's worth it for that small of a potential gain.
I really need to play . The cut or clamp might be an immediate disaster, and even if it's not, it's really, really bad aji. With I feel pretty thick.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:43 pm
by daniel_the_smith
I predict...
Magicwand will jump into the corner at C16.
Re: 50. Magicwand (3d) v. Fwiffo (4k)
Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:11 pm
by Magicwand
$$Wcm51 Prisoners - W: 1, B: 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X X O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . O X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . | $$ | . . O . 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . , . . . O . X . . . | $$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . O O O . . . . . . O . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . X X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
that keeps my group alive AND keeps the ladder working?
at 
) might be pretty decent. Maybe there's a move in the upper right that reinforces my group there in sente allowing me to play the other ladder. Or maybe there's a move in the upper left corner that lets me secure territory and also activates the cut on that side.
. The cut or clamp might be an immediate disaster, and even if it's not, it's really, really bad aji. With