56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

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Magicwand
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

point "a" will be very painful for him..
i have invasion at "b" that is pretty good because of my influence.
i just hope he answer "c" and not as below.. i dont wanna think..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . b . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A wise man once told me,

"To place the good-a moves, you must close your eyes... but keep your mind, wide open."

Inside joke, don't worry about it.

Anyways, I think I can play here, I've been doing my reading, and according to my analysis, this is far better than just blocking passively.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . 3 . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this would be a problem.
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
yes..if i can think of that move...i should've guessed that he can see also. my bad..
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by kokomi »

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

nothing different..


@ Magicwand

wondering why black has to play k10, can black play two spaces jump L17 on the upper side? What would white play if black tenuki at k10. Maybe white will play K10? Does it mean black's center group is weaker than the two upper one?

Thanks.
长考出臭棋.
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No choices here...
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X B O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X W . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . B O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now Black has peeped at a bamboo joint. Not so great.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . B . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


"Don't let the double knight's move get away." :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Violence »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
edited: more sequence
if he want this fight ...i dont mind. i think i will have advantage.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 6 4 . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . 3 . . 1 . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . 2 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this picture is not much different..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i dont see him playing this either..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Bill Spight
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Bill Spight »

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


edited: more sequence
if he want this fight ...i dont mind. i think i will have advantage.


I like this play. I don't know about the advantage, though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b1: is shape, I think, but it feels insipid.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 O . B . . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . a . O . . 6 4 . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . 3 . . 1 . . X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . 2 O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this picture is not much different..


Running with :b4:, etc., feels heavy to me. (Jowa says, "Don't run.") I think I would slide in at "a" instead. If White responds in the corner or nails down the :bc: stone, then "b" looks good.
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At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by ethanb »

I know I'm late to the party with this comment (didn't have internet access for a few days) but...

Magicwand wrote:he has a choice of a, b, c, d,
d is pretty recent and complicated.
i assume he will play b. but ..never know what to expect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c O b d . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




For weaker players reading Magicwand's comments to learn from him, this B is *not* an option. I have no idea at all why he thought Violence would play it. I read that and almost fell out of my chair. The only reason you would ever play this move is if there was some threat on the right side and you needed to defend a weak group there. *Never* in the opening.

After I recovered I said "well, maybe he knows something I don't" and checked my database of games (gathered piecemeal here and there, but it's fairly extensive nonetheless.)

I turned it up in 6 amateur games (5 were strong amateur -- 6d+ games, one was myself as a 5k versus another 5k on KGS) and only 3 pro games.

The only one of those games where it occurred as an opening move was the 5k vs. 5k game (embarrassingly though, I was the one who played it - and I did lose that game.)

Every other time it was because the game had progressed well beyond the early opening anyway, and players were deviating from joseki to shore up weaknesses in existing groups. As far as I can see, there are no redeeming values to it whatsoever as a move with an open board to the right, and as far as my database says, stronger players tend to agree with me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c O b d . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going over the moves in order:
A: classic - shrinks black's corner, easy to make territory on the right, black is easy to make influence on the bottom. Downside in this case, black's hoshi in the upper right means the territory on the right side might not come to much.
B: awful move - no pressure on black's corner, black is easy to make influence on the bottom, black is easy to squeeze white on the right.
C: thick move - prevents black from making a moyo on the bottom or in the center. Black may catch one stone later to get a large corner.
D: recent variation - less pressure on black's corner, but still some. Black may still make influence over the bottom, but maybe a little less than with A. Easy to find eyespace, so difficult to attack from the right immediately.

Magicwand, when the game is over I really want to know why you thought white would play B.
Bill Spight
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Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)

Post by Bill Spight »

ethanb wrote:
I know I'm late to the party with this comment (didn't have internet access for a few days) but...

Magicwand wrote:he has a choice of a, b, c, d,
d is pretty recent and complicated.
i assume he will play b. but ..never know what to expect.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c O b d . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




For weaker players reading Magicwand's comments to learn from him, this B is *not* an option. I have no idea at all why he thought Violence would play it. I read that and almost fell out of my chair. The only reason you would ever play this move is if there was some threat on the right side and you needed to defend a weak group there. *Never* in the opening.

After I recovered I said "well, maybe he knows something I don't" and checked my database of games (gathered piecemeal here and there, but it's fairly extensive nonetheless.)

I turned it up in 6 amateur games (5 were strong amateur -- 6d+ games, one was myself as a 5k versus another 5k on KGS) and only 3 pro games.

The only one of those games where it occurred as an opening move was the 5k vs. 5k game (embarrassingly though, I was the one who played it - and I did lose that game.)

Every other time it was because the game had progressed well beyond the early opening anyway, and players were deviating from joseki to shore up weaknesses in existing groups. As far as I can see, there are no redeeming values to it whatsoever as a move with an open board to the right, and as far as my database says, stronger players tend to agree with me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c O b d . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going over the moves in order:
A: classic - shrinks black's corner, easy to make territory on the right, black is easy to make influence on the bottom. Downside in this case, black's hoshi in the upper right means the territory on the right side might not come to much.
B: awful move - no pressure on black's corner, black is easy to make influence on the bottom, black is easy to squeeze white on the right.
C: thick move - prevents black from making a moyo on the bottom or in the center. Black may catch one stone later to get a large corner.
D: recent variation - less pressure on black's corner, but still some. Black may still make influence over the bottom, but maybe a little less than with A. Easy to find eyespace, so difficult to attack from the right immediately.

Magicwand, when the game is over I really want to know why you thought white would play B.


What is the date range of your database? Joseki do become obsolete, but fashions also come and go.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . 2 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is joseki according to Suzuki-Kitani (1965). It may not be in fashion now, but that does not mean it is awful.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . 3 O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . B . . . 6 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, I think that it is questionable here, because of :bc: . :b2: starts a fight.

As for the hanging connection, it also appears as joseki in Suzuki-Kitani, so I doubt if it is a recent variation. ;)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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