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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:01 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
For observers:
Joaz Banbeck wrote: ...
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31After J5 and the slide, he is safe.
Playing the 3-3 does not threaten to kill...
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31I'm having second thoughts about this.
If I play the attack like this:
$$Bcm34
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm34...and he continues like this:
$$Bcm36
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm36...then he can't save both sides:
$$Wcm45
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm45...or alternately like this:
$$Wcm45
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm45Even this last position can go wrong if white is not careful:
$$Wcm49
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm49$$Wcm49 53 fills
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm49 53 fillsI've skipped a lot of branches here - maybe including some terribly obvious one that settles the whole issue - but I'm not pretending to have made an exhaustive analysis. I'm just showing the complexities that arise if white tenukis too soon.
I suspect that Drmwc is looking at much the same thing, and that is why he is delaying his move.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:23 am
by drmwc
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:20 am
by Joaz Banbeck
To all: I may need a day or two to think about this.
To observers:
As mentioned earlier, I'm not certain if the 3-3 is a threat to kill. I have to figure out if it is.
If it is, I'll play it. If not, I'll play around C9/D10.
Although, I have been looking at some interesting ideas of playing some forcing moves on the lower side that he has to answer in a submissive manner while he is still weak, but that he could answer in a more assertive manner later if I were to delay them until he is stronger.
One example of this is playing H2 now if he cannot respond with J2. ( I sure would like to see him forced to respond to H2 with a connecting move on the third rank. Not only would this limit his territory, but it means that I would be able to get an eye with J2 later if my J5/M5 wall got cut off and had to fend for itself. )
$$Wc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:34 am
by Joaz Banbeck
My desktop died on Sunday, so I took the opportunity to complete the transition to Linux.
( I no longer use a Windows machine in my busness or personal life
)
I've spent the better part of today installing drivers. So it may be another day or so until I make a move.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 1:09 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:49 pm
by Uberdude
Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Playing awful exchanges just to make sure the 3-3 is sente is not good. As drmwc posted, he was probably going to play the push anyway:
drmwc wrote: If I play the slide, this is likely:
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31I am not confident of living without 33. Even if I can live, without it any aji against the the B group will disappear and the game will be quite territorial, which may favour B.
Note that even if 3-3 is not sente, then all the follow-ups are which lets black get thick and points in sente so white has no chance to harass the black corner/wall.
So now we will get this result:
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm3132 for 33 is clearly rubbish.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:17 pm
by Loons
Aren't we just going to see this?
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:27 pm
by Uberdude
Loons wrote: Aren't we just going to see this?
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31I didn't actually think of ignoring it as it's a bad exchange for black. But your sequence leaves white too thin:
$$Bcm36
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm36And if 41 clamps black connects in sente and then saves the corner stone and white squirms/dies.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:15 am
by logan
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:33 am
by Uberdude
So maybe this?
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31Probably 33 for 34 is a good exchange for white: in terms of territory it is, but it does make black's shape outside thicker so I'm not 100% sure.... Also given drmwc's style I don't expect him to sacrifice the 2 stones.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:29 am
by drmwc
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31
Curious move. It appears to lose a few points, so I will grab the money.
Maybe Joaz is after a squeeze:
$$Bc B's aim?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc B's aim?After this, B ataris at a and shuts white in. It's not necessarily bad for white - a weakish group lives with 15-20 points, and a hole at b appears. However, I can side-step the issue:
$$Bc B's aim?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc B's aim?6 as above avoids the squeeze.
I could contemplate some other approaches with my move 31 e.g.
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31Playing at the 3-3 may well lead to an exchange. This line looks boring for white. Black gets some territory on the side, and more importantly elimates a large source of bad aji/potential weak group. The game will become quite territorial without much attacking. So I prefer to avoid this.
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:44 am
by EdLee
(
For beginners. )
This kind of exchange,
-
— if it works, if B kills W, then it's good.
But if it doesn't, then it's just basic broken shape for B,
and Uberdude already covered the eww-ness.
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:12 am
by Bill Spight
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:43 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31
So my opponent does not want to make easy life for me. This means that he is thinking of eventually pushing through at 'a'.
$$Wcm31
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31In return, I get the opportunity to use the aji of H2 to strengthen my wall. I'm going to start with this, threatening G3.
$$Wcm31 If 35 tenukis
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm31 If 35 tenukis
Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck
Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:55 pm
by Bill Spight
Note the diagonal relationship between
and
.
Playing the 3-3 does not threaten to kill...
$$Wcm31
)
- 
— if it works, if B kills W, then it's good.
. 