Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

Violence · Post by **Violence** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:23 am

Approved.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm137 Move 137 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X W O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:09 am

Approved.

shapenaji · Post by **shapenaji** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:30 am

Approved

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:28 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm137 Move 139 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm having trouble seeing a way for this to go better for us than ko.

I'm playing this as a sort of a probe. If W plays elsewhere, the ko starts here. If he connects, we get two ko threats against the group when the ko starts next turn. If he doesn't, the ko starts here and we have threats against his top-right group.

Actually, second thought: if W doesn't connect it's not ko, we just kill him with F19. So, two ko threats. And I think W is going to take first, and then gets one internal threat...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm137 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . 6 2 O 1 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O 5 O X . . . O . O X 9 . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O 8 O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 4 X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O 3 X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Actually, I'm not sure this ko is winnable for us, either. At least as I've read it out. But if there's any way for us to live here, I think it has a ko component, so having these ko threats will be necessary. And if not, my big brothers will have to save me. :scratch:

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:29 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm137 Move 139 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O C . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O B X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was going to play this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 139 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . 7 O 6 . . . . . 5 . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . 8 B O . O X 3 4 . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . 2 X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X 1 X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O . X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

No reason for us to fight the ko, we need both :bc:

and

at

to kill, right?

But then I thought a bit more... if we start the ko, we need to be sure to win it, otherwise we should play as above. But it would be nice to get something, I don't think we're ahead-- white has so much potential on the bottom.

I'm not sure why jts wants to play where he did... :b6:

above is itself a ko threat, so we have 3 there if we don't start off by playing the first one.

So we have three threats on top. White has maybe one around the lower left area. So I'm pretty sure we can win the ko. I expect white will let us just eat the top left.

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:01 pm

Violence · Post by **Violence** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:32 pm

Approved.

mitsun · Post by **mitsun** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:08 pm

Not for players:

If W connects every time B plays atari on the large group, and if W answers B ko threats on the left by living, then B has enough ko threats to squeeze W into a dead shape. At that point, capturing the ko no longer helps (B can simply connect), and the 1-2-3 exchange only makes one eye.

But suppose W answers the B ko threat on the left with another ko? That does not live outright, but on the other hand, further B ko threats no longer threaten to kill outright. Then W can ignore a B ko threat to save the large group before it is squeezed to death. This might let W resist a little longer

Edit: On second thought, I guess that just means the first B ko threat should be played inside, at the marked W stone, rather than atari from the outside.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . W . O X . . . . X 2 3 . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . X O O O X 1 . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O O O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X . X O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:37 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm137 Move 140 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X W C O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Wed Apr 20, 2011 11:40 pm

I approve...and I think we get two stones for Daniel's correction.

shapenaji · Post by **shapenaji** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:51 am

Approved

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:36 am

jts · Post by **jts** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm141 Move 141 W65 B60 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . O B . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X O O . O X . . . O . O X . . . . | $$ | . X O O . O X X . . . X O . O X X . . | $$ | . X X O O X O X . X X O . O O O X X . | $$ | X X O X . X O O X O X X O O X X O O O | $$ | . O O X . . . O . O X O O X X X X X X | $$ | . . O X . . X . O . X O X . . . . . X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O X X O X X X X . X X | $$ | . . O X . . . . O . X X O O X X . . . | $$ | . X X O X . X . . O O O O X O X X . X | $$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . O X X | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Isn't it one stone for the middle brother?

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:57 am

Approved. It is two points in this game for me to correct.

Life In 19x19

Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)

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