Life In 19x19

Or we could move on, post game records and discuss them. The Western pros will certainly appreciate their backbench gets back to discussing that aspect of their profession.

Knotwilg wrote:Or we could move on, post game records and discuss them. The Western pros will certainly appreciate their backbench gets back to discussing that aspect of their profession.

That'd be wise - though, I doubt we'd get 700 posts discussing the game records. Arguing with each other is so much fun!

Ferran wrote:

sorin wrote:I know they may eventually make the video commentary available on youtube [...] but that seems to be done with a great delay (game 4 is not available there yet).

There are programs and websites that allow you to download twitch videos. I'm not sure of the policy L19 regarding that, so I'm not publishing them here, but you can find them. The only thing is that twitch makes for rather "fat" videos, you'll have to pass it through a converter.

Take care.

Turns out that the video is available for replay on Twitch already: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/433553924

In fact all previous videos in this match are on Twitch at: https://www.twitch.tv/usgoweb/videos

sorin wrote:Turns out that the video is available for replay on Twitch already: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/433553924

Yes, of course. That's where I get them from. But I prefer to have them archived myself. Wouldn't be the first time I like a video and it ends up being discarded, or turned private, or is a victim of some weird DCMA claim...

Take care

Well, here's the game (Eric is black): Ali lost by a lot and even though he found a cute shortage of libs to live with one of his groups on the right the other was dead and he was far behind (r5 and p4 look dubiously heavy). IMO he shouldn't have played this game at 8pm after playing 2 games earlier in the day in the Amsterdam tournament (not saying this as an excuse and that he would have won otherwise, losing to Stephen Hu 5d shows he is not in good form atm). The game was originally scheduled for the week before (but delayed to write new rules), so he should either have cancelled his playing the tournament on Sunday or let the team/organisers know he is busy and another EGF pro play instead. If the organisers say "no, player order is fixed" then kick up a fuss and point out the schedule change is due to their mess up re rules. Or was playing in Amsterdam not Israel part of his new responsibility to make 'best efforts to ensure good connection'? I'm having trouble feeling any congratulations for Eric for playing well as his unsporting behaviour poisoned the event so just hope he loses soon and my enthusiasm returns when Ryan (who has a nice comment as play online series, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsYfp2TBnCQ) plays.

Uberdude wrote:IMO he shouldn't have played this game at 8pm after playing 2 games earlier in the day in the Amsterdam tournament (not saying this as an excuse and that he would have won otherwise, losing to Stephen Hu 5d shows he is not in good form atm). The game was originally scheduled for the week before (but delayed to write new rules), so he should either have cancelled his playing the tournament on Sunday or let the team/organisers know he is busy and another EGF pro play instead. If the organisers say "no, player order is fixed" then kick up a fuss and point out the schedule change is due to their mess up re rules. Or was playing in Amsterdam not Israel part of his new responsibility to make 'best efforts to ensure good connection'?

Given the controversy, I understand your discontent from the result of game 4 (I don't share the same feeling, but I can see your perspective). But to bring up reasons for losing like the game schedule and other tournament commitments seems a bit immature to me. Maybe if he ate something different for breakfast, the result would have been different. Maybe the weather outside hurt his chances :-p

Uberdude wrote: I'm having trouble feeling any congratulations for Eric for playing well as his unsporting behaviour poisoned the event so just hope he loses soon and my enthusiasm returns when Ryan (who has a nice comment as play online series, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsYfp2TBnCQ) plays.

Just so we're clear on terms, earlier you said this:

Uberdude wrote: IMO sportsmanship is going BEYOND what is required by the rules to pursue the ideals/spirit of the game. Not doing so does not mean you are unsportsmanlike, it's just neutral. Unsporting behaviour is behaviour within the rules but against the spirit of the game.

What did Eric do that was against the spirit of the game?

On facebook, I raised the possibility of just giving the win for the tournament to the European team, and you said it'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. From the tone here, I'm of the impression that no other result would bring you satisfaction.

---

To end this thread on a positive note, congratulations to Eric for a well-played game!

Kirby wrote:

Uberdude wrote:IMO he shouldn't have played this game at 8pm after playing 2 games earlier in the day in the Amsterdam tournament (not saying this as an excuse and that he would have won otherwise, losing to Stephen Hu 5d shows he is not in good form atm). The game was originally scheduled for the week before (but delayed to write new rules), so he should either have cancelled his playing the tournament on Sunday or let the team/organisers know he is busy and another EGF pro play instead. If the organisers say "no, player order is fixed" then kick up a fuss and point out the schedule change is due to their mess up re rules. Or was playing in Amsterdam not Israel part of his new responsibility to make 'best efforts to ensure good connection'?

Given the controversy, I understand your discontent from the result of game 4 (I don't share the same feeling, but I can see your perspective). But to bring up reasons for losing like the game schedule and other tournament commitments seems a bit immature to me. Maybe if he ate something different for breakfast, the result would have been different. Maybe the weather outside hurt his chances :-p

I think it quite likely Ali would have lost even if he was refreshed and alert, it's more playing in these conditions is similar to Mateusz not standing up and complaining about his lag earlier: I think the EGF pros are suffering from naivety and not protecting themselves as Bill puts it and would be better to have sharper elbows even if that can be seen as being difficult.

Kirby wrote:

Uberdude wrote: I'm having trouble feeling any congratulations for Eric for playing well as his unsporting behaviour poisoned the event so just hope he loses soon and my enthusiasm returns when Ryan (who has a nice comment as play online series, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsYfp2TBnCQ) plays.

Just so we're clear on terms, earlier you said this:

Uberdude wrote: IMO sportsmanship is going BEYOND what is required by the rules to pursue the ideals/spirit of the game. Not doing so does not mean you are unsportsmanlike, it's just neutral. Unsporting behaviour is behaviour within the rules but against the spirit of the game.

What did Eric do that was against the spirit of the game?

As I've said before Eric continuing to play in a late-game losing position vs Mateusz was neutral, not unsporting (and Ali doing the same here likewise, but even more understandable given this tournament has established wins by technical issue are preferred to gracious resignations). What I consider unsporting was his objection to the referee's first decision of resuming the game vs Mateusz. Agreeing to it would be neutral. Sporting/magnanimous would be saying "Don't bother with that faff, I resign anyway, well done Matuesz, I don't want lag to spoil our game" (this could be done even before the referee arrived after the delay and ruled for a resumption).

Kirby wrote: On facebook, I raised the possibility of just giving the win for the tournament to the European team, and you said it'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. From the tone here, I'm of the impression that no other result would bring you satisfaction.

Eh? I wouldn't find that satisfying. Much more satisfying would be if Ali had beaten Eric on the board, but that didn't happen. So now it's onto hoping Pavol wins. I find wins decided by Go skill much more satisfying than those decided by technical issues or forfeits.

What I consider unsporting was his objection to the referee's first decision of resuming the game vs Mateusz. Agreeing to it would be neutral. Sporting/magnanimous would be saying "Don't bother with that faff, I resign anyway, well done Matuesz, I don't want lag to spoil our game" (this could be done even before the referee arrived after the delay and ruled for a resumption)

1.) We know what Gangshen wrote, because he posted it. We don’t know the dialog between Eric and the organizers, so making conclusions from that is simply gossip.

2.) Referee made a single official decision, which was what was announced. The first informal decision was provided by the server (loss by time).

3.) If objecting to a referee’s decision is unsporting, Mateusz is equally unsporting for his objections. It’s not like the EGF pros are altruistic victims here. Both sides wanted to win game 4, and objections to informal decisions came from both sides.

4.) We’ve been rehashing game 4 for awhile now, so i had hoped the new game could bring us some sort of a restart. I guess not.

Kirby wrote:2.) Referee made a single official decision, which was what was announced. The first informal decision was provided by the server (loss by time).

If there was a single decision, what had both team objected to ?

Yes please Kirby, stop.
You complain that it restarts while it is you who insist on the subject.
And you continue to invent false remarks to participants in the conversation, which inevitably provokes stormy responses to this lack of respect
Example: "If objecting to a referee's decision is unsporting"
Nobody said that.
Never on this topic.
You invent.

What he say: "his objection to the referee's first decision", because it was against the spirit of the game (the spirit of the game being that the result should be decided on the board, not by the internet connection).
It is obvious, and Uberdude explaining it saying if Eric Lui choosed"i contest the decision, i surrend" this will be sportmanlike.

Uberdude messages are very clear(more than mine), if you are not able to understand them, i think it means you are too invested emotionally.
So please, stop write,stay calm, think a bit, try to understand messages before answer, and you will see we can move on.



Thanks a lot,

Fenring wrote:Yes please Kirby, stop.

The point of stopping the argument was not fingerpointing at anyone for continuing their side of the argument. Stopping means stopping all-together.

I just read a story from the recently concluded WAGC that shows another way to deal with situations when one player runs out of time: https://www.intergofed.org/igf-news-fee ... y-two.html

Basically: both players took turns to having their flag fall down, but they (and the referee) agreed to continue playing.

Knotwilg wrote:

Fenring wrote:Yes please Kirby, stop.

The point of stopping the argument was not fingerpointing at anyone for continuing their side of the argument. Stopping means stopping all-together.

I'm down with "stopping" (I guess that means to discontinue discussion about game 4). While the topic is entertaining to me, I think we've pretty much beat the topic to death, and people have come to think what they'll continue to think about the matter, probably.

Besides, I've gotta believe that I should give credence to any post written in big pink letters.

Kirby wrote:Besides, I've gotta believe that I should give credence to any post written in big pink letters.

Ah, but only if it has polka dots!

Take care.