quantumf wrote:Mike Novack wrote:As somebody who designed software in my day (though not game playing software) I can tell you that I would think an AI to find "go reasons" much easier than an AI to try to evaluate "best of the lot" in the context of a particular board position. I can see how fairly simple rules might be able to tell whether this or that go reason applied to a move. Not so for the evaluation process.
If it's that easy, I wonder why MFOGO 12 doesn't do that.?
It
DOES do that. That is precisely what MFOG 12 is doing. It is using an AI "go reason finder" to create a candidate set of moves and then using a MCTS evaluator* to pick the best of those moves. The MCTS evaluator is doing that (evaluating each move) without referring to the reasons attached to that move (by the AI). But after the move has been chosen, the reasons can be displayed. All that requires is having left them attached to the moves.
If you aren't seeing this happen then you haven't turned on that option (to show reasons). Do you have MFOG 12? Or know somebody who does? Playing against a bot over the internet, say on the KGS server isn't going to let you change options.
If you look at the reasons (run with that option on) you can see that a move often has several reasons associated with it. It might be interesting if looking at that list (and of course the move itself in the context of the board position) people did or did not see
other reasons (other "things" the move was doing in the go basics sense). Now that might give us some idea of the "level" of the reasons if we had several people of differing go strength do that. For example:
If looking at the reasons displayed by MFOG 12 a 5 kyu human can't see addiitonal reasons for the move then the reasons are at least the 5 kyu reasons. Similarly for other levels of players. Those of you who think that the reasons shown by MFOG 12 are 15 kyu reasons are predicting that, for example, a 10 kyu player would see additional reasons.
* At its 1 dan and 3 kyu settings. For the 6 kyu setting and weaker MFOG12 is using its old (from MFOG 11) AI evaluator. BTW, Fotland believes he doesn't have the "3kyu" level calibrated correctly, that maybe it is actually 2 kyu. It is really difficult to adjust the MCTS evaluators to be a specific amount weaker than their maximum strength.
