[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I think I got enough from the right side. Now it's time for battle!
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:53 pm
by hyperpape
What do people think about P17 vs S17? My instinct is that it's not as good. It does make O16 pushing from behind for Black instead of sente, but I don't think O16 was ever awesome for Black anyway. As Kirby points out, it also seems to make it easy for B to tenuki.
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:24 pm
by Kirby
In blitz, I'd play this:
$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Might still be okay, but I don't know for sure. In this type of situation, I should think about my options in terms of counter attack on his shape. He has some thinness, so maybe I can come up with a combo to make some sort of counter work.
Maybe something with cross-attach, too...
$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . B . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess I'm saying that I could just play my blitz response, but maybe I can try to make a nice result with the aji here. That requires a bit of thinking, though.
I'm not in the mood for thinking right now.
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 2:13 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
@Hyperpape & other observers:
hyperpape wrote:What do people think about P17 vs S17? My instinct is that it's not as good. It does make O16 pushing from behind for Black instead of sente, but I don't think O16 was ever awesome for Black anyway. As Kirby points out, it also seems to make it easy for B to tenuki.
I was thinking the same thing. O16 by black is not practical now, but N15 still is almost as good.
For white, strengthening O17 is not all that important, for it is never going to do much since it is easily opposed by black at J17.
$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X B . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . 1 X B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:21 pm
by illluck
@Joaz
I don't disagree that last move may be aji-keshi (lean towards agreeing with you, unless MinjaeKim seem a clear route to attack that we are missing). However, not entirely sure whether losing the hane is a big deal (after the hane white still needs another move to remove the side eye). If black responds at D9 to white's last move, white still has "a" or "b" in reserve:
$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . b . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Wc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X B . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . b . . W . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:53 pm
by MinjaeKim
Joaz Banbeck wrote:@MinjaeKim:
MinjaeKim wrote:...
I think I got enough from the right side. Now it's time for battle!
Did you consider any other moves to begin the attack? How did you choose this one?
Other moves? Yeah, but none was satisfactory as my actual move. Does black have a good response here? I don't think so since black doesn't have the chance to strengthen the C7 weakness. I think I almost got the lead in this game.
Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)
Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:17 pm
by Kirby
$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . . . . O O O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . B . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . O , . . . X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------