Life In 19x19

To be fair, it sounds a little weird to me that they started off by saying "The 27-year-old Chen’s accomplishments as a pro include defeating Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p, the top current player, for the 2016 Bailing Cup.." and then casually mentioning at the end "as well as winning 17 other national and continental titles."

Perhaps they want to address non-Go fans who only heard about Ke Jie and Lee Sedol via the match against Alpha Go?

kimidori wrote:

To be fair, it sounds a little weird to me that they started off by saying "The 27-year-old Chen’s accomplishments as a pro include defeating Lee Sedol 9p in the 2013 Chunlan Cup and Ke Jie 9p, the top current player, for the 2016 Bailing Cup.." and then casually mentioning at the end "as well as winning 17 other national and continental titles."

Perhaps they want to address non-Go fans who only heard about Ke Jie and Lee Sedol via the match against Alpha Go?

Seems plausible to me, though I think they should have stuck in "and the Chinese Tianyuan title a record 8 times in a row".

P.S. Chen Yaoye has a fond place in my heart as he played a promotion game (for the Go-n-Games China trip I subsequently went on) on KGS many years ago against a high dan and in the kibitz I (then a ddk) asked if some other sequence would have been better for black and some dan player said no, my idea was bad, and then in the review Chen said my suggestion would have been better .

Uberdude wrote: P.S. Chen Yaoye has a fond place in my heart

I do like these Chinese guys, especially Zhou Ruiyang since the latest AlphaGo event. They seem to be pretty cool and laid-back - not blasé at all - as shown in the "famous" facepalm-picture.

P.S. And Ke Jie didn't seem arrogant either.

Some photos from round of 32

Wang Haoyang 6p half point win over DeepZenGo Ryan Li 1p 2 1/2 point win over Chen Yaoye 9p Follow this link on Sina Sports you can view slide show of final 16 players drawing next round's match up
http://slide.sports.sina.com.cn/go/slid ... 3.html#p=1

pookpooi wrote:Ryan Li rating shoot from 2998 to 3101
Chen Yaoye though, decrease very little, from 3523 to 3511 so it's not the end of the world for him, just the end of the tournament.

Pretty sure that Chen Yaoye doesn't care that much about his 'goratings.org' rating. He probably doesn't even know about the site.

This YT channel posted the Chinese commentaries from both WeiqiTV and Tianyuan Weiqi: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo3EbZ ... a-H2Bdeh_g

xiayun wrote:This YT channel posted the Chinese commentaries from both WeiqiTV and Tianyuan Weiqi: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo3EbZ ... a-H2Bdeh_g

Thank you for sharing!

By the way, I am curious in general about the Chinese language YouTube channels content - who is usually sharing there, given that in China YouTube is not accessible, who is the audience, is it mainly for Chinese people living abroad?

alphaville wrote:

xiayun wrote:This YT channel posted the Chinese commentaries from both WeiqiTV and Tianyuan Weiqi: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo3EbZ ... a-H2Bdeh_g

Thank you for sharing!

By the way, I am curious in general about the Chinese language YouTube channels content - who is usually sharing there, given that in China YouTube is not accessible, who is the audience, is it mainly for Chinese people living abroad?

Yes, the online sources in China (e.g. iQiyi/Sohu/Youku/Tencent) block the newer content from being viewed from foreign countries, so there is a huge demand for people living abroad to see the latest TV shows and other popular broadcasts.

Such YT channels are always at risk of getting reported and shut down though since they don't have the copyright, a fate a few Chinese Go channels had suffered before.

uberdude: Regarding the an joyeong game I think there is an alphago self-play game they are copying that variation from.

Summary of weiqitv's commentary on wang haoyang vs deepzen:

against ai, you need to survive being overwhelmed in the opening by their powerful global judgement

19: Deepzen go shows a weird strategy, giving W the good point at 20
21: but now it makes sense. W jumping out is natural, but it seems like W prepared the good double hane combination. But defending the territory is fine too, a matter of style.
32: B's shape seems in trouble, W is playing very well
34: can W really block here? the feeling is to retreat first
39: lovely combination, is this what B was preparing. It seems difficult for W. next sequence is forced, but W doesn't feel comfortable. From this it seems that 21 should still be jumping out.
52: at least W can come back here, but why didn't B atari here first?
54: painful but probably no choice
58: painful to have to defend again, but truly no way to fight the ko after B7 A7 B6 B5 A6 B9 B8 D8 as B getting B5 and A5 in sente will almost kill the W corner group below. Note that W can't try to kill unconditionally with B9, as that walks into C7

59-70 interesting, but normal

71-84 what??? Deepzen loses a lot of points and ko threats with zero gain, 73 is misplaced and is better at L16, and B loses the possibilities of L16 and M17

It seems like W is now ahead. It is time to deal with the centre. W has over 50 points, and it seems unlikely B can pay for komi.

86 very questionable. hmm, isn't the centre bigger?, such as at P8 but perhaps W is saying this is enough. Later: this game had little fighting, it is as if both sides were confident in their position, with W having an AI like judgement of the game. Starting from 86, it is as if W decided he was ahead and played enough just to win by 0.5.

108-120 standard way for W to maximise local profit from the aji here.

130 it seems like W is clearly ahead

165, 167 computers don't play timesujis right? but these lose B ko threats and may lose B points

183 no choice, but B used up all it's ko threats ...

215 losing move. Deepzen's endgame ... this loses 1 point compared to S1. As it loses sente. After top is played, after S1, W must play A4, and B gets Q1 for B4 in sente, and then B wins by playing the only move L19 so that B still gets the last endgame. Most amateur players would miss this mistake.

__
Peng Quan's analysis of 215 seems correct to me, but if so, this is a serious issue with Zen's endgame.

I just checked the tianyuanweiqi commentary with fang tianfeng 8p, and he criticised the same problem with S1, but didn't realise it might not help unless B finds the L19 move. But then Peng Quan 7p is known for his endgame, and being an active player, he is naturally sharper at this.

dhu163 wrote:uberdude: Regarding the an joyeong game I think there is an alphago self-play game they are copying that variation from.

Ah yes, game 20 is similar; black makes the hane block exchange on lower side to stop white's descent there, then we get white not making the corner hane so black descends in sente and white fixes with empty triangle: taking a liberty but allowing atari, and then black gets turn on right rather than more crawling and corner is left unplayed for a while but eventually becomes a seki.

dhu163 wrote: 58: painful to have to defend again, but truly no way to fight the ko after B7 A7 B6 B5 A6 B9 B8 D8 as B getting B5 and A5 in sente will almost kill the W corner group below. Note that W can't try to kill unconditionally with B9, as that walks into C7

Interesting: The developer of DZG, Hataki Kato, said that DZG "mistook a dead group on the left side of the board as an alive one" (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/baduk/comments ... mlily_cup/ ). Regarding what you said, was this really a decisive mistake?

Reminder... starts tonight (pacific time).
I understand the AGA will cover these matches in their video stream

event_horizon wrote:round of 16

Huang Xin 4p (CN) vs Lee Sedol 9p (KR)
Rong Yi 5p (CN) vs Liao Yuanhe 5p (CN)
Xie Ke 3p (CN) vs Tan Xiao 8p (CN)
He Yang 1p (CN) vs Chen Zijian 4p (CN)
Fan Yunruo 6p (CN) vs Wang Tao 6p (CN)
Wang Haoyang 6p (CN) vs Park Yeonghun 9p (KR)

Ke Jie 9p (CN) vs Park Junghwan 9p (KR)
Li Xuanhao 6p (CN) vs Ryan Li 1p (CA)

After losing, less than 5 minutes, Ke Jie log in to fox go server and observe his own broadcast room.

dhu163 wrote:215 losing move. Deepzen's endgame ... this loses 1 point compared to S1. As it loses sente. After top is played, after S1, W must play A4, and B gets Q1 for B4 in sente, and then B wins by playing the only move L19 so that B still gets the last endgame. Most amateur players would miss this mistake.

215: R-01 is a losing sente, losing 3/4 pt. from the original position. So it is the obvious suspect.

Also, Black 231, S-01 instead of A-03, sacrifices 1/6 pt. by allowing White A-04, in order to get B-05, which gains 2 pts. (White has sacrificed 3/4 + 1/6 = 11/12 pt. in these maneuvers! ) By contrast, the alternative sequence given above lets White get B-05 and gain 2 pts. The swing is 4 pts. in the bottom left. However, the swing in the bottom right is also 4 pts., for a wash in the two regions. The difference is who plays first (and last) at temperature 1. In the game it was White, in the alternative sequence it is Black. There is your 1 pt. difference.

However, for Black to play S-01 at move 215 means that White 216 plays first in the top half of the board. And that certainly gains more than 1 pt. It would be quite unusual for a losing sente that sacrifices 3/4 pt. to be correct at this stage of the game. So, yes, Black 215 is probably the losing move. But it still could offer the best chances of winning as a sacrifice to let Black play first in the top right. If so, the losing play comes earlier in the game.

Peng Quan's analysis of 215 seems correct to me, but if so, this is a serious issue with Zen's endgame.

I continue to maintain that top humans have an advantage against bots in the endgame, unless the bots can build a large enough game tree. By the mid-endgame the board has divided into independent regions (except for ko fights) and taking that into account, which is what humans do, is more efficient than whole board reading per se.