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Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:58 am
by kokomi
hyperpape wrote:One win for Gu Li over Kim Jiseok, and one for Heo Yeongho over Park Cheon-hwan.
So it's between Gu Li and Heo Yeongho?
Do you know how many matches they will play and when?
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:08 am
by emeraldemon
Occording to Mr Kin's, the semifinals are best of 3, so there's still a few more games before the final.
http://igokisen.web.fc2.com/sc.html
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:24 am
by hyperpape
From Gu Li-Kim Jiseok, Gu Li playing white, there's an interesting move at
. This contant is common, but I thought it's usually played after white approaches the upper right. Is this a new move? If it's been played before, is it common?
$$c Gu Li vs. Kim Jiseok.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Gu Li vs. Kim Jiseok.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:06 pm
by Magicwand
hyperpape wrote:From Gu Li-Kim Jiseok, Gu Li playing white, there's an interesting move at
. This contant is common, but I thought it's usually played after white approaches the upper right. Is this a new move? If it's been played before, is it common?
$$c Gu Li vs. Kim Jiseok.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Gu Li vs. Kim Jiseok.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 7 . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
i have not seen that played before. then again...i have not really studied professional game for past 5 years.
but it really make sense to see that play in action.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:08 pm
by kokomi
is just a testing move, isn't it? Then that's nothing not common.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:32 pm
by hyperpape
Kokomi: some probes are played this early, most are not. So the question is why this one, and whether it's a new idea.
I did a search on eidogo, and the pattern for the first four stones on top seems to be new.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:13 pm
by kokomi
Well, the idea behind testing move is quite clear. In the begining of the game, there are many place one can play. If this move isn't that wierd, say (2,2), then it's not uncommon. It's not a new joseki, it's just a testing move.
I am reading the books of Sakata sensei recently. In one of them, he had this move in very early stage of the game. And the idea behind it was well explained. If the concept behind it isn't new, then i don't think that's something new. Maybe you have a different view of new on your side.
So the question is why this one
what other probe can you play on this corner?
I don't follow pro games much often neither, and as a 7kyu, this is only my oppinion.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:34 pm
by hyperpape
Perhaps you're thinking of the probe used after white has approached on the right, as discussed here:
http://senseis.xmp.net/?EnclosureOpening.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:32 am
by hyperpape
And the second game in each semifinal was a repeat of the first. Gu Li and Heo Yeongho will play the finals on Dec 7th, 9th and then the 10th if necessary.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:21 am
by Dusk Eagle
kokomi, I can't quite tell if you're talking about the probe itself being uncommon or playing the probe right here and now in this fuseki. The probe itself is very common indeed, however, I have never seen it played quite this early in the game before. It's something I might try when my opponents play this fuseki on me.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:22 am
by ratata
Gu Li won the Samsung Cup after beating Heo Yongho 2-1 in the final.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:34 am
by RedStick
and here's the final
(;
KM[6.5]
FF[3]
SZ[19]
EV[15th Samsung Cup final round 3]
GM[1]
PB[Gu Li]
PW[Heo Yeongho]
BR[9d]
RE[B+R]
DT[2010-12-10]
WR[7d]
;B[pd];W[dd];B[pq];W[dp];B[qk];W[mq];B[po];W[jq];B[nc];W[cn];B[fc]
;W[df];B[id];W[re];B[rd];W[qe];B[qd];W[qi];B[ch];W[cj];B[eh];W[cg]
;B[ff];W[bh];B[pg];W[pk];B[ql];W[oh];B[og];W[nh];B[mf];W[qp];B[pj]
;W[qj];B[oj];W[ok];B[nj];W[pm];B[rn];W[pp];B[om];W[rg];B[op];W[nl]
;B[ph];W[pi];B[lj];W[oi];B[lh];W[pe];B[ng];W[rk];B[rl];W[sj];B[no]
;W[qo];B[pl];W[oq];B[or];W[nq];B[qq];W[rq];B[rr];W[mo];B[mn];W[nn]
;B[on];W[ln];B[nm];W[gh];B[ef];W[fd];B[gd];W[ec];B[gc];W[fj];B[er]
;W[dq];B[hq];W[hf];B[ee];W[ed];B[bg];W[ge];B[de];W[ce];B[dg];W[cf]
;B[bi];W[cc];B[bj];W[di];B[dh];W[bk];B[ho];W[ko];B[ah];W[mc];B[nd]
;W[jd];B[jc];W[kc];B[jb];W[gr];B[hr];W[gq];B[jp];W[jo];B[gp];W[fq]
;B[ip];W[kq];B[hm];W[il];B[fp];W[eq];B[fm];W[dk];B[gk];W[je];B[ie]
;W[jf];B[if];W[ig];B[jg];W[hg];B[gj];W[kb];B[ic];W[nb];B[ob];W[le]
;B[md];W[ld];B[mb];W[lb];B[na];W[fi];B[fh];W[hb];B[ja];W[kg];B[jh]
;W[kh];B[ji];W[lg];B[lf];W[ki];B[kj];W[jj];B[ij];W[jk];B[ii];W[kf]
;B[mh];W[mg];B[kd];W[mj];B[mk];W[nk];B[ml];W[ni];B[li];W[ke];B[lk]
;W[lm];B[mm];W[nf];B[me];W[of];B[lc];W[np];B[kd];W[oo];B[bd];W[cd]
;B[op];W[bf];B[cl];W[ck];B[aj];W[oo];B[bl];W[dl];B[op];W[qr];B[pr]
;W[oo];B[co];W[dn];B[op];W[sr];B[qs];W[oo];B[bn];W[ak];B[bq];W[do]
;B[bo])
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:09 pm
by hiyayang
Summry of pro comments on the final game:
and
are overplays.
is questionable. By
, it is clear that
is a wasted move, trying to rescue two white stones in an area dominated by black thickness.
and
are overplays. By
, the game is practically over.
In the end, black is alive in the lower-left corner.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:07 am
by hiyayang
A few data points (all apparently involving the number 7):
By winning the Samsung Cup, Gu Li has extended his impeccable record at tournament finals to 7, winning all 7 finals he has entered (not counting the team events). By comparison, Lee Sedol has a longer winning streak (9) at finals, but he lost at least twice, once to Lee Changho in his early career and once to Gu Li at LG Cup, right before his sabbatical.
With the Samsung title in hand, Gu Li just needs to win the Ing Cup to complete the Grand Slam of 7 major titles (Samsung, LG, BCCard, Ing, Chunlan, Fujitsu and the now-defunct Toyota Oza). Lee Changho is the first and the only person so far to complete the Grand Slam (with the now-defunct Tong Yang Securities in place of the new BCCard title, which wasn't available during his prime time).
Before entering the Samsung final, Gu Li was in a lousy state, having just lost his last domestic title, Chinese Mingren, to a 19-year-old upstarter Jian Weijie 5p, failing to extend his reign in this event for the 7th year. Coincidentally, last year he lost his second-to-last domestic title, Chinese Tianyuan, to 19-year-old (then) Chen Yaoye 9p, also stopping short of holding the title for 7 years. That led to some speculation that he might have trouble winning his 7th title at Samsung.
Re: Open Samsung Thread
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:21 pm
by emeraldemon
hiyayang wrote:With the Samsung title in hand, Gu Li just needs to win the Ing Cup to complete the Grand Slam of 7 major titles (Samsung, LG, BCCard, Ing, Chunlan, Fujitsu and the now-defunct Toyota Oza). Lee Changho is the first and the only person so far to complete the Grand Slam (with the now-defunct Tong Yang Securities in place of the new BCCard title, which wasn't available during his prime time).
Now that Toyota-Oza is defunct, will people call it a grand slam if someone wins the 6? Seems like thing Ing is a hard one to take, since it's only every 4 years. Only BC Card, Samsung, LG, and Fujitsu are every year, and BC Card has only been going for 2 years. Gu Li, Kong Jie, Yi Setol, Yi Changho, and Yu Changhyeok have each won the 3 annual titles, maybe the "hat trick" of go?