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Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:00 am
by hyperpape
@balmung For later
balmung wrote: $$Wcm26 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm26 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1I probably should have done this instead of take the 30 point play in the upper right, but now either he gives me the corner or outside influence based on what joseki he picks and how he plays it. The game might be very close soon
This is usual with the low chinese fuseki, I think it's fine with the high. It doesn't give black either the corner or outside influence--just a group that will have to take care of itself. I'm not sure this is the right play here, but white is not obligated to give you either outside influence or the corner.
Oh, that's not a criticism of your move, mind you.
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:30 am
by Aphelion
$$Wcm28 Captured Stones:
0
1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . W . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm28 Captured Stones:
First some thoughts: I think my other earlier move with the high Chinese isn't the best. It aims for a fight to build either the left or top, but with Black being so solid in both corners I don't know if a fight is exactly what I want. Its not game-losing, but probably a little sub optimal.
Now, I think Black is being too jealous here, jumping directly in to the pre-pincer. I think I am starting to see a trend for the game. I excel at punishing these kind of overly jealous players, so I think I will be very comfortable. I would have played like this as black:
$$Bcm27
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm27
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:41 am
by daniel_the_smith
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:56 am
by balmung
$$Wcm28 Captured Stones: 0 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm28 Captured Stones: 0 1
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:29 am
by Aphelion
$$Wcm30 Captured Stones:
0
1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30 Captured Stones:
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:42 pm
by Aphelion
Balmung, its your move
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:40 am
by balmung
$$Wcm30 Captured Stones: 0 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30 Captured Stones: 0 1college keeps me so busy.
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 4:46 am
by Magicwand
for obs:
if you are sdk then remember that below shape can not be good.
i remember something similar happened on topazg's game and i also said it can not be good.
word of advice:
do not try to analyze why it is bad..just remember it is a bad shape then you dont have to think.
$$Wcm30 Captured Stones: 0 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm30 Captured Stones: 0 1
Re: 95: Balmung (7k?) vs Aphelion (5k)
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:19 am
by Aphelion
$$Wcm32 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm32 Captured Stones: W 0 B 1
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:01 am
by EdLee
For observers:
Magicwand wrote: remember that below shape can not be good.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WNormal:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B
Re: Re:
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:11 am
by topazg
Helel wrote:
I was actually able to find three pro games where the former was played:
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=719
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=718
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=717
Re:
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:54 am
by judicata
Not for players:
EdLee wrote: Magicwand wrote: remember that below shape can not be good.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WNormal:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BI like Ed Lee's characterization of the second diagram as "normal" rather than "correct." The more I play, the more I believe that there is rarely an "only" move (setting aside life & death issues). The player's reason for a move, I think, is really important. Pros make stupid-looking moves sometimes because they have a special reason. But it is like learning a language--generally, you should learn the "rules" and the "proper" way to write/say something, but then you can break the rules when the situation calls for it.
So I think it is important to teach people the "normal" or "proper" move; if a player considers the normal move and decides it isn't good, then he or she can choose something else.
Re: Re:
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 2:07 pm
by Chew Terr
judicata wrote: Not for players:
EdLee wrote: Magicwand wrote: remember that below shape can not be good.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WNormal:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BI like Ed Lee's characterization of the second diagram as "normal" rather than "correct." The more I play, the more I believe that there is rarely an "only" move (setting aside life & death issues). The player's reason for a move, I think, is really important. Pros make stupid-looking moves sometimes because they have a special reason. But it is like learning a language--generally, you should learn the "rules" and the "proper" way to write/say something, but then you can break the rules when the situation calls for it.
So I think it is important to teach people the "normal" or "proper" move; if a player considers the normal move and decides it isn't good, then he or she can choose something else.
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:24 pm
by EdLee
For observers:
For reference: Out of 50,744 games, SmartGo returns the following search results (both local and whole board):
$$B 0 (zero) games
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B 0 (zero) games$$B 1,002 games
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B 1,002 games
Re: Re:
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:45 am
by Tommie
Helel wrote:
EdLee wrote: For observers:[hide]
Magicwand wrote: remember that below shape can not be good.
$$W
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$WNormal:
$$B
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BI was actually able to find three pro games where the former was played:
(...)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=718
(...)
Who understands move W60, resp. B61 of the second game,
Kim_Hyo-kon--An_Yeong-kil.sgf?
Could s.o. of this forum pls. explain to me, why it would be disadvantageous for B to cut with B61?
___________________________________________________________
The criticised move is technically a bump with a hane already played.
This reminds me of this sequence:
[url]3-4 point high approach, two-space high pincer, bump
http://senseis.xmp.net/?34PointHighAppr ... PincerBump $$Bc development of the bump
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc development of the bump[/url]
0 
1
