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132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=4298

Page 6 of 17

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:59 am
by perceval
@ obs:

given that B ends up being gutted, was C18 a mistake then ? what was the good answer locally ? (i understand that B18) was already a mistake but after B18-D18 what is B best ?

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 3:41 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . . . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure I agree with black's last move. It's not a huge minus for him, IMO, but I would not have played there.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:44 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . 6 . , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I did some quick reading, and I think I will be ok even if he cuts (either way). It will be complicated though, and I should avoid complications against stronger player. However, I believe that ship has already sailed. Besides, I'm doing this for learning rather than winning (although winning while learning would be nice, of course)

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:03 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X 7 , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This may end in gote for me, but I hope not. I will try to just play patiently - which is difficult in a handicap game.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:44 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O , . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think he needs to protect those cuts, and if he does I can turn again. If I can keep building outside influence, it should work well with my stones on the right.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:58 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O 9 . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hopefully I get a chance to strike back.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:25 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At first I thought of playing K14, but white will probably tenuki. Instead I think it's time to continue putting some pressure on the lonely white stones in lower right. I don't think he can ignore this.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:45 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Bleh, I get a bit of a loss in the local area. I wish I had played there first, but there wasn't much time, I feel. I hate feeling behind, and sometimes leave behind weaknesses.

Anyway, I'll grab some profit here to make the best of the situation. He'll get my two stones.

Hopefully I can make up enough ground to compensate.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:49 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only move (to me at least)

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:26 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:31 am
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:32 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'd like to play here, instead.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:57 am
by tj86430
Ok.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I have a feeling a shouldn't play this, but I can't see why. Surely time will tell.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:34 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I probably won't get sente here, which is a bummer, but let's see if he gives it to me, again.

Re: 132 Kirby vs. tj86430 (4-stone hcp)

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:58 pm
by tj86430
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . O X X O . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . O . X X . . X O O . . . O O X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . X X . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 X . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . , . . . X . X X O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think S6 would work here as well, but I want to avoid complications.
All times are UTC-07:00
Page 6 of 17

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