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Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:54 pm
by pwaldron
Tsuyoku wrote:So, to recap:
1.Ondrej Silt retakes a ko prematurely.
2.The ref announces Alexandre Dinerstein wins.
3.The ref announces Ondrej Silt has to take back his last move and play on from there, and start with a fresh byo-yomi period.
4.Dinerstein is PISSED OFF by this.
5.Dinerstein resigns, and announces he will appeal this outcome.
I'm guessing that Silt didn't do it on purpose, but that's not the problem. The problem is a referee retracting a win. Don't say someone won unless you mean to not retract it for very sure.
It would really upset me if that happened to me.
I still don't think Dinerstein should have the win, but at least an apology for the quality of refereeing would be proper. A little bit more than "oops, sorry!" is in order here.
But, that's just assuming there aren't more details people haven't mentioned. You never know if you're not there to see it happen.
Agreed, on all counts.
Adding a slight wrinkle to the discussion: at what point should an appeal be launched? I was rather surprised that Dinerstein resigned, and then launched an appeal. My natural inclination would be to ask the referee to adjourn the game until the appeal could be heard.
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:40 pm
by tchan001
The lesson to be learned is that before you play in a tournament, you should always familiarize yourself with the most current version of the tournament rules you will be abiding by. "Tournament-rule-suji" can be another interesting play indeed.
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 11:59 pm
by Vesa
tchan001 wrote:The lesson to be learned is that before you play referee in a tournament, you should always familiarize yourself with the most current version of the tournament rules.
The obvious thing corrected
Cheers,
Vesa
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:39 am
by gaius
Vesa wrote:tchan001 wrote:The lesson to be learned is that before you play referee in a tournament, you should always familiarize yourself with the most current version of the tournament rules.
The obvious thing corrected
Cheers,
Vesa
Referees are also volunteers who have a life outside go. Do they have to know every obscure rule by heart? No, higher bodies (ie. appeals committee and EGF rules committee) exist for that purpose. Here, a volunteer had to make a pretty tough call, so he/she made the tough call. Later the ref was overruled by said higher bodies. OK, mistakes happen. Cut them some slack...
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:51 am
by tj86430
I don't know about others, but I wouldn't volunteer to be a referee in any sport/game unless I was pretty sure I knew the rules. And if I still came across a situation when I wasn't sure, I would keep the rulebook with me, so I could check.
I don't have much experience of go tournaments, but when I played bridge actively the tournament directors often showed (read) the rule applied to the players from the rulebook. I believe that helped to keep the number of appeals usually quite low.
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:55 am
by topazg
pwaldron wrote:Agreed, on all counts.
Adding a slight wrinkle to the discussion: at what point should an appeal be launched? I was rather surprised that Dinerstein resigned, and then launched an appeal. My natural inclination would be to ask the referee to adjourn the game until the appeal could be heard.
I feel like I'm playing devil's advocate suddenly, but it could always be argued that he resigned simple because that was now likely to be the end result and he didn't want to hold up the entire tournament for the appeal to take place - we don't even have the precise nature of the appeal to hand do we?
Re: EGC Drama
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:06 am
by shapenaji
Helel wrote:Even in a court you can't be sure that the judge is able to remember the law. Get a good lawyer.
That's because the law usually involves a good deal more rules than go does. If the rules are too complicated for any person to memorize prior to refereeing a game, then they're too complicated for players to use.