136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

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Kirby
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Loons wrote:@Kirby
Can you tell us more about :b52: ? Especially with respect to alternatives, white's thickness, your enclosure, white's weak group and your pincer.


@Loons:
If I answer all of your questions, I will probably have analyzed the situation more than I did when I played it. :-)

These days I am playing more based on feeling than getting actual rationale for moves, which I express in my head.

For this game, I've been looking at Magicwand's move, not playing immediately, and just thinking about it lightly for a little while until I feel comfortable with a move that comes to my head. It's not a very systematic process, and it may not be that good of one. But I'm playing the move that I *think* I want to play, from my intuition, I guess.

Nonetheless, I guess I'll try to express the feelings I had behind playing the move.

1.) I feel concerned about white's influence in the center.

2.) I want to keep a step ahead of his (previously) two stone group. If that group does not get strong for a few moves, then that's a few moves that I can get in to alleviate the pain I will feel from his thickness later.

3.) I don't want to just grab territory. It just feels wrong.

4.) I want the L16 stones to have reduced effectiveness...

Hmm. I guess those are the only reasons that I can really express about why I played the move. But to be honest, I did not conceptualize these feelings to myself verbally or anything. It really was just a mixture of feelings that resulted in what I thought would be the best move.

It's probably not a good way to play go, but I'm experimenting with it...

Or maybe it's just that I'm lazy. :-)
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Solomon »

Despite Kirby's reasoning, I think I'd still rather just play this way instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about it for awhile, and I can't think of a good place to play up there... So let's play down here.
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 5 O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 6 . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Reduce!
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by jts »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ (LN F5 P5)[/go]


I wanted to draw a sector line to question the reduction-ness of this reduction, but now I'm just baffled by how I made the diagram look like that.
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . 7 O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

sorry about the delay... i didnt know it was my turn to move :) .
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 8 . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I suppose the idea is to keep things light. I wonder if I still know how to play go, though...
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

G2
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move sticks out to me. It's just intuition, though. Like I said, I forgot how to play go.
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
it is so nice to have kirby back :)
but this game is almost over and he will resign soon
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 1 . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . 3 2 X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, I intend to live here. After that, I suppose the top left is an area to focus on. He has some territory on the bottom, but not much elsewhere. The top is an area of strength for white, but if I secure life here, I do not feel he'll profit much.
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . 5 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O X X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 7 . 8 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O 6 5 . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O X X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about doing another atari to prevent white's extension:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 7 9 0 . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O 6 5 C . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O X X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


to get the marked intersection played, but it seems "kyuish" as mw would say. Practically speaking, it seems aji keshi because, frankly, I think atariing gives more to mw than if he extends.
be immersed
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Magicwand
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Re: 136. Magicwand vs. Kirby - Fire, Strike, 2 stones again!

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm61 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X X X . . . |
$$ | . O . X . X . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . O X X X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O X O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O X X . . . . . . O . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . O O O . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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The greater the unknown"

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