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34. Magicwand (3d) vs. Kirby (1d)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=484

Page 6 of 26

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:39 pm
by Kirby
Meh, he's going to do that sequence, I think. I've got to think more...

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 2:28 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm48 Move 48 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think I might be OK, even if white peeps at me. If he does, I plan to do the following:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . W . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X 1 . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that the aji around my three sacrificed stones will help me a bit.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 3:39 pm
by Kirby
I daresay that I think I'm OK. I'm pretty sure I can live with my group, and in doing so, Magicwand might have less than 40 solid points. I think that I have more than this in solid territory.

I think the game is going pretty well. :cool:

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 5:55 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm48 Move 48 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


attack is funny thing. if you dont do it right you lose points..
but if you do it right...it is damn effective.

now..building some influence outside while attacking is all i am intrested in.
i thought about peeping and..dissmissed.
if it doesnt give you good outcome its better not to peep.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 7:45 pm
by FlameBlade
For neither players until waaaaaaaaaay later.

[quote="Kirby"]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm43 Move 43 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't get this move at all.

I'll explain. Ponnuki is good...only if it requires 3 stones to create. Wait, Flameblade is speaking like crazy man here...ponnuki requires 4 stones. Think about it. Which ponnuki is more efficient: if you capture one stone, or you create ponnuki without capturing a stone?

Think about this.

I'm saying is that Kirby didn't make an efficient ponnuki here on the board. And certainly DOES NOT FIT the flow of the fight.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:00 am
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm50 Move 50 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move helps me to get more space for my group to run.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:09 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm51 Move 51 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
every move he try to make life will result in my moyo getting stronger.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:53 pm
by Kirby
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm52 Move 52 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . B . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move gives me more space for living. I feel somewhat comfortable.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:18 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Move 53 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W O X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

everything is going as i planed.. moyo getting stronger

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 am
by quantumf
To Magicwand:
everything is going as i planed.. moyo getting stronger


Can you please explain this? I don't see any moyo.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:49 am
by daniel_the_smith
I don't really see a moyo, but if my games look like this as black against 4d+ (with handi) it's a sure sign that I'm gonna lose.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:49 am
by SpongeBob
quantumf wrote:To Magicwand:
everything is going as i planed.. moyo getting stronger

Can you please explain this? I don't see any moyo.

Magicwand always sees his position very positive. :D
I am curious how he's gonna profit from this attack, too.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:33 am
by amnal
SpongeBob wrote:
quantumf wrote:To Magicwand:
everything is going as i planed.. moyo getting stronger

Can you please explain this? I don't see any moyo.

Magicwand always sees his position very positive. :D
I am curious how he's gonna profit from this attack, too.


I'm not convinced either about magicwand's use of the word moyo, but his position really is quite positive. Because black has forced white to take fairly perfect territory on teh bottom, and fairly perfect thickness in the centre, white can play anywhere without fear of repercussion.

With moves like M17 available to probe black, and plenty of big moves in both other corners, white may well be able to conjure a moyo from nothing. And if black wants to prevent that, he will be forced to give up territory breaking into the centre.

I'm wondering if white has any ideas about tesuji in the Q14 area. Although black can break through, white may be able to use his shortage of liberties to isolate the centre stones.

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 4:38 am
by Magicwand
quantumf wrote:To Magicwand:
everything is going as i planed.. moyo getting stronger


Can you please explain this? I don't see any moyo.


to quantumf

i have marked the moyo. this will limit the black on top and left side.
in my opinion that moyo worth about 30+ points.
at the end black inside will have 2 points and gote.
i will have sente and solid wall.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm53 Move 53 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W W X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W W X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 34. Magicwand vs. Kirby, part 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:47 am
by Magicwand
one simple expectiation of near future..
i believe he will play 54 and i will exchange 2 and 3 then play something like 4.
this will leave me with two big move miai a and b.
a will limit black growth b will expand my moyo further.

also..black dragon is still unstable. after i get marked area stronger i can attack at C and possibley kill.
at least earning points W's on my right will happen.

bottom points + possible right side pts + possible middle moyo points..
i think i am not behind and my attack is safe and successful and easy way to win.

for territory all you have to do is count and moyo has greater variance so it is harder to count but still can be estimated pretty accurately.

let me know if anyone has more question.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm54 Move 54 - Prisoners: B=1, W=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 4 . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . C C . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . C C O 2 O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . C C . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . W W X 1 . c . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . W . X . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W W X . . . w w w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . w w w w |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . X . . w w w O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . X O O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . O O . . X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . . . X O . . . . . . . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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